Drukama RadioTM Episode 46 – Dreaming and the Astral Worlds

This week Daishi and Sarai discuss dreaming and how it relates to the spiritual path. What can practitioners do to improve dream recall and lucidity? How can becoming more wakeful in dreams benefit our spiritual path and give us a deeper understanding of the structure of reality? What is the relationship between the energy body, energy practices such as Tummo, intention, and dreaming?
Dreaming and the Astral Worlds - Drukama Radio™ Ep 46

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Episode 46 Extract

Dreaming and the Astral Worlds

“You can sit down and meditate until you are blue in the face, it doesn’t mean that your intention and desire are pointed correctly. And if they are not pointed correctly, you are wasting decades.
And I’ve known meditators that are really sharp, very focussed meditators who are incredible; they can sit for five hours straight. It doesn’t necessarily mean they are achieving anything but making their mind sharper, more clear, more focussed.
That’s great — you can calculate numbers better, probably you are wittier than most people, or maybe you are a better programmer but that is not the evolutionary path of a Mystic; a Mystic wants to activate a certain kind of sense that then touches the intelligence of the Universe! ~ Daishi Nagiyah”

~ Daishi Nagiyah

Full Transcript of This Episode

By popular demand, this particular instalment, on Dreaming and the Astral Realms, is considerably longer than our usual shows, so grab a cup of tea and enjoy the insightful conversation. We’ll return to our regular format on the next episode.

Sarai: Hello everyone and welcome to Drukama Radio. My name is Sarai and I’ll be your co-host today. We are very grateful to have Daishi with us again today. Daishi, may I ask how are you?

Daishi: I’m doing great. I appreciate you doing this with us and I’m excited to talk about this interesting subject. So let’s jump right into it.

Sarai: I’m looking forward to this discussion today as well. We’ll be talking about dreaming and the astral worlds. So let’s first touch on the fact that many people, Daishi, even though we all dream every night and can have multiple dreams, why are some people claiming that they don’t dream at all?

Daishi: That’s a great question, because it seems that there’s a vast majority of people who don’t actually have any dream experiences or at least they don’t believe that they do. And why? Like you said, why is that? It comes down to a number of factors, but one of the most important factors that is most crucial to remembering and experiencing dreams is vitality, is the amount of repair and reconstruction that goes on in the body. And that’s based on what you’ve done the previous day, and how much sleep you’re actually getting, and what kind of quality sleep you’re getting and so on and so forth. How much stress is in your life mentally, emotionally and how you are physically.

So there’s a lot of things that go into that vitality, and you know take for example somebody who’s working 40 or 60 hours a week and they have a family and they have kids or a spouse, partner or whatever – they’re going to have a lot of work going on mentally, emotionally and physically during their average day and that’s going to really sap their gas tank. So by the time they finally do get to bed and in most of these cases these people are not going to sleep they’re going to probably only sleep 6 or 7 hours. All of that time that they’re resting, they’re going to be recuperating and their body’s going to go down deep into a delta state so that it can just really go unconscious and work on getting those new cells formed and fighting off toxins and regenerating the body and so on. So by the time they wake up, there may have been a huge amount of dream experience going on behind the scenes, but they’re certainly not going to have the ability to recall that deep conscious level of dreaming that the body was in, because of the repairing that’s going on.

This is exactly why we find kids having more lucid and wilder dreams than busy middle life adults because they have more damage to repair on all three of those levels and they have less time to do that, too less time to repair. Really dream recall comes when the body is feeling lighter, there’s less stress, the mind isn’t overworked and the general vital energies of the body are higher. So in a child, naturally they have more vital energy, naturally they don’t have much stress, naturally they’ve got an excess of sleep time. So all those things add up to allow them to have dreams that they usually recall. So if you ask a child when they wake up, did you have dreams? Yes, I dreamed I went here and I had that…They can tell you all kinds of exciting adventures in their dreams. But when you ask the 30+ or 40+ executive, he’s going to tell me – you know, I’ve never had a dream, I haven’t had dreams since I was seven. So that’s typically one of the major reasons why most people as you say 60%, which is probably even shy, don’t really have a lot of recall. It’s because they’re actually recharging and recuperating their body at night and they’re not really getting satisfactory sleep and they need to look at all of those factors in general and see how healthy they are mentally, emotionally, physically and also the quality of their sleep and the quality of their previous day.

Sarai: I definitely notice when I’m tired or have low vitality, it’s difficult to recall the dreams. Another tip I heard was to stay still when first awakening from sleep, closing the eyes again and trying to recapture the dream, and sometimes that helps if you’re just on the verge of trying to recall a dream. But other than recalling dreams once we wake up, are there other measures that we should take prior to going to sleep, such as turning off computer screens?

Daishi: That’s a great suggestion. It’s one of the most important things I think, it’s to get away from light in general. You know like for thousands of years, tens of thousands of years, hundreds of thousands of years, human beings have lived by the sunrise and sunset, and our circadian rhythms have been a certain way. Our pineal glands worked during that perfect circadian rhythm and they worked in sort of a perfect flow with the sun rising and the natural light in the sun setting and the natural light with mostly just candle flame and fire. It wasn’t until the last hundred or so years that we’ve [been] inundated more and more, generation after generation, with false light. And this false light has really screwed up the systems within the human being because now, you know, we’re watching and staring at blue screens all night long until we actually get into bed and sometimes even in bed. And then we try to go to sleep and the body’s clock is saying, how are you sleeping right now when the sun’s still up? And you know, there’s a heavy misunderstanding. We’re leading the body in the wrong way in terms of just a reasonable expectation.

So we need to get away from those screens.We need to get away from light in general. And I know that, you know, there have been hundreds of people over the years in my house and they’ll always tell me – Daishi you keep your house so dim, or you keep only candles, or you keep stuff really dimly lit. And yeah, I do that on purpose because I don’t want my family or anybody visiting me to be under the pressure of heavy, bright, obnoxious lights, especially at nighttime. The daylight – we have windows everywhere. So we let sunlight in like crazy, but during the nighttime, I like to keep things real dim for that reason. Most people unfortunately, they go to work, they’re under really heavy lights, they’re at computers, they go to lunch, they’re in the front of their, you know, today at least, they’re in front of their cell phone or tablet screens, they go back to work, they go home, they’re in front of their computers or TVs. And all of this light, this fake kind of lighting is tricking the mind into believing that it’s still noon and that really upsets our natural rhythms. That really plays a big part in how we dream and the manner in which we dream.

Sarai: It seems we have stages too, that like first we’re trying to remember our dreams and then we remember, but we notice how rambling and illusory the dream is. And then we strive for more wakeful dreams or to astral project. And there’s so much information in the media these days, giving techniques on astral projection and tricks to become more lucid in a dream. But for all of these tools, what works for one person to trigger lucidity may not work for the other. And

even if lucidity is achieved with some type of tools such as reality checks or we manage to astral project, we can easily slip back into a dream unless we can maintain focus and not get distracted by whatever is presented to us. So instead of learning something new, would it be more beneficial to get clear of something old, like the old habits of mind stream? Or those thoughts which cause confusion and illusion and distract us from that focus?

Daishi: You have really wise words right there. What you said was really important, so I hope people listen to that. There are three centers in our body that are generally made up of the lower portion of our body, the lower bowl of our body. There’s a barrier there, or an area there, that represents our physicality, our physiological side. And that’s our brain and our nervous system and our body itself. And that area needs to be awoken to some degree. That area waking up creates a certain kind of energy stirring or a certain kind of vital energy stirring that then goes into the heart center. It moves up our central column into the heart center, which is more related to energetic, emotional records – kind of reactionary, emotional responses and all of the history of our emotions and how it’s affected us on that level or that subtle level of energy. That also needs to be worked on but in its own special way. And then there’s another level in the head, in the mind. There’s another barrier there and that barrier has to do with our formless kind of mental and subtler realm of mind stream and mental aggregates and so on. When this channel from the root, straight through the central column to the top of the head, when that opens up, there is a pillar there that connects like a battery from top to bottom and allows the energy then to go outward into the auric field or what we call just the general overall field of the body.

What happens at that point when those two connections are made by following the path the right way, we don’t try to dream awake or lucid or astral project at that point. It’s just a natural occurrence. What people are doing today is, they’re trying to gain that Siddha or that power prior to achieving it naturally and organically. And there are tricks and cheats to it, just like there are tricks and cheats to anything. So you can play with different kinds of tools as you suggested, that can give you a better chance of having a moment of wakefulness or lucidity in your dream. That’s possible. There are tricks. But they don’t last, they’re not powerful and they really, when you go the shortcut way, you don’t ever really achieve the overall goal, which is having a sustained and radiant clear view in your dream that can be used purposefully for evolution.

So the real way to do this is not to try to shortcut and say, hey let’s just try to get lucid and then we’ll have fun in our dreams or we’ll go adventure or whatever it is, we’ll talk to ascended masters or whatever we believe we’re projecting in those dreams, but to actually go through the right process. Go from the first area of the body energetically, the second area of the body energetically and the third area of the body energetically, opening up that central column and allowing that secondary body to become active. And once that secondary body is active, astral projecting or lucid dreaming is just a natural effect. It’s a side effect, and it isn’t actually a goal. It’s just something that happens when consciousness reaches a certain point. So when you get to that level, among other things, there are other kinds of side effect powers or abilities, they just come naturally. So the way people feel and the way people think and the way people want to interact with you or what their future holds or what their past holds or all these kinds of intrinsic kinds of subtle feelings and intuitions inside become more activated at that point. And in the old days they call these powers that are generated on the mystical or occult side, but quite honestly, this isn’t anything that’s woo-woo. This is just something that is a natural effect of you being connected in the right way energetically. And unfortunately most human beings don’t even have that first portion of energy active. So they’re cut off from all of this. There’s barriers in the way of all of this. And because of that, they really find several negative results of this. One is, that suffering and misery, confusion follow them around. They either need to chase and cling to things and try to mask or fill that hole of suffering and misery or confusion constantly – you know, more money, more job, more sex, more influence, more drugs, more power, more knowledge, etc – or they just fall away and go into depression or anxiety, etc. We see that all over the place – mental illness is a major problem today.

So once we start to awaken these centers the right way, and this is what I call the long short path, which actually means that it looks like it takes longer, but it’s actually shorter because you actually fulfill the attainments of the path correctly as opposed to the short long path which is like trying to find cheats and tricks and shortcuts that don’t ever actually fulfill the ultimate goal of the path, which is to crystallize this energy that flows through the body wholly and fully and radiantly, so that these things are natural and they’re absolutely regular and fluid and organic. And you don’t have to try to get to a state of lucid dreaming. You don’t have to try to astral project. You just become aware of your dreams as you would be aware in the waking reality. And then you can apply – as finish the idea or the point here – you can apply your evolutionary process then to the dream world as well as this world.

What does that look like? Well, there are things you can do in that world that you can’t here, that allow us to kind of continue to evolve beyond what seems to be a human, limited perception, limited options that we seem to find in the physical body.

Sarai: You mentioned anxiety. And along the lines of those thoughts and emotions, the three most widely reported emotions felt during dreaming are anger, sadness and fear. Anxiety and fear don’t just manifest as something scary either, like a wild creature chasing us. It can present in other ways such as thinking we’re not liked, or we’re not good enough, thus coloring the dream scenario when we’re not lucid. Do we all have unconscious anxiety to some extent and could this anxiety also make us afraid to investigate things if we did become lucid, instead of just being objective?

Daishi: It’s absolutely, right. Yes, everybody. Yeah, we do. Unfortunately if we find ourselves in this world, and you know, we’ll get into a little philosophy for a second, so this is an opinion, you don’t have to believe this, the idea of the path is to figure this out for yourself. So experience this directly one-on-one, but we’ll talk a little philosophically. If we find ourselves in this world, it means that we have fears – we have an experience here that we’re trying to figure out or understand. And, really, why do we go at it the way we do? Why do we perceive the way we do, the world, each other, ourselves, our dreams? Because there’s timidness, there’s fear, there’s anxiety, all of those things fall in the same category. And why is there fear, timidness, anxiety? Well because we’re trying to evolve into something that is so vast, that the binary or dualistic mind that we carry around in this physical brain can’t possibly fathom it. It doesn’t even have the ability to. It’s like trying to have a small older PC perform a very advanced new game, right?

So the gamers out there will understand that if you put a really high-tech game on an old machine from you know, 1999, it won’t run. It just doesn’t know how to keep up with the graphics needs and the sound needs and all of the processing needs. The brain is the same way. It really can’t handle anything other than 1 or 0, up or down, left or right. It’s really made to, the mental aggregates I should say, are made to handle a very basic system of 5 senses and the memory, ego, identity, intellect and so on – those things work in concert together to create a reality. It’s just enough for us to kinda get our bearings and say, ok, I can go out this far, I can come in this far, this is where my body begins and ends, these are my thoughts, this is my feelings, this is who I am and that’s who they are, that’s where I work and this is where I live. It sets a basic kind of system up. And from there it gives us the opportunity to adventure and kind of go into that system and try to explore past it.

It’s really what the game is. It’s to say, do you want to explore past this system? Are you ready to go beyond the system or are you content in this system? And what that question really means is, are you afraid? Is the fear high enough to stop you from trusting the environment enough to go adventure into it? And once we start breaking down that fear and anxiety, we start to reach out and go after paths like, you know, the mystical kind of path where we want to know more about, how do we function? And who are we really? And do I have free will? And what are my emotions? And how come I react? And, you know, what are the different voices in my head?

Are they all me or am I just hearing them? And so on and so forth. So everything is about anxiety and fear for the human being. From the beginning, the moment they’re born, all the way truly through their life. And when fear goes away completely, when there is no more fear, and your courageous all the way through and through, we call that completely realized or enlightened.

It means that you’ve broken all the boundaries and the limitations of the physical body, you understand what mentation really is, you understand emotional reaction and you’ve mastered the energies of the body to such an extent that you don’t have any fear of death anymore, you don’t have any fear of experience and you’re willing to go full throttle toward everything. And that’s really what the purpose of life is. It’s to break the shell. And that happens for a very small number of people, usually. Over the generations at least, at a time, the majority, the mass majority of the world is not ready to tackle those questions or to go into those deep mystical kinds of adventures. They just simply want to know, “How do I make my car payment?” “How do I get a good job?” “How do I support my family?” And then, “How do I die?” This is just enough for them. But there are those rare ones that say that’s boring. I don’t care about all of that for some reason or another none of that interests me. I seem to have no desire or any drive for that. I want to know how I function. I want to know why I’m here. I want to know who created me. I want to know who gives me breath. I want to know who gives me life and how I think feel and react to things. And this is what we call a spiritual aspirant or a mendicant or a practitioner or seeker. And this is a person that needs to understand – okay what’s the next level here? Is there something beyond the senses? Is there something beyond the aggregates? And then they start to adventure first into energies that are beyond emotion. There are energies that are searing through the body. And as we get ahold of those energies then we can begin to utilize those energies to awaken certain dormant or atrophied aspects of ourselves within. And as we begin to build those dormant or atrophied aspects or attributes, we begin to sense and perceive in a way that transcends the limited dual physiological body. And this is where people say, oh, it’s mystical occult woo-woo. It isn’t for the practitioner because they’ve experienced it firsthand. But it certainly is for the general population who have no idea that it would be possible to do any of these things.

As a final thought here on this I would say most human beings don’t know what they don’t know. They accept reality as its given to them without question. Basically, this is the bandwidth, the sight you have, this is the bandwidth of hearing you have, this is the bandwidth of touch and that is all there is. And people just say okay, then that’s what I’ll work with and I’ll do the best I can within that. A mystic says, I either know or I have an intuitive feeling that I’m not being shown the full picture and I want to break through and see the full picture. So now we go into some very heavy kinds of applications that allow us to break the bonds of the kind of perceptions we hold so that we can begin to peek behind the curtain. And one of those ways is through dreaming. There are other ways through meditations and there’s there’s many other ways actually that we can start to peek behind that curtain and go beyond the five limited tactile senses of the body and explore. And as we explore we get more courageous and as we get more courageous we get bigger boundaries.

We begin to grow and expand and evolve. And as that continues, eventually we get bigger than the system can hold us. We begin to get large or too large for the system and we break free from it the same way a chick breaks free from an egg or a baby breaks free from the womb when it grows to a certain extent. So that’s really what the process is about and it’s based on fear and anxiety at first and thus overcoming them.

Sarai: So you touched on meditation. Some people use meditation to become more lucid during the day which naturally helps us become more lucid during our dreams. Would it help lucidity also to think of all that happens during the waking state as actually happening in the dream state? In other words to recognize the illusory state of things in the physical. Will this also help us to better see what is real when our physical vessel sleeps?

Daishi: It is another way to shortcut the path because what you’re doing at that stage is you’re tricking yourself into understanding the opposite of what you perceive to be true. So you’re looking at reality and you’re saying this is transient. In and of itself it has to be, because I came into it and I’m going to go out of it. And something that doesn’t have persistence to it, that doesn’t last, like my body, my thoughts, my emotions, the reality around me, the macrocosmic environment that I perceive, all these things come and go. And therefore because they come and go, whether it’s for a hundred years, a hundred thousand years or 100 million years is still the same thing. It’s transient. Because it’s transient, if I start to look at it that way it’s going to allow me to open up to a new idea or new perception of reality. And that can transfer obviously over into the dream state because then we can start to perceive the dream state in the same way as well. And eventually the ideas all form and matter are empty. They’re all essentially empty of what we believe to be stuff like wood and metal and air and fire and water. We look at these things and think of them as full of some substance but in truth they’re really empty of inherent substance. But that emptiness doesn’t mean what people think. It doesn’t mean that it has nothing there. That emptiness is actually completely filled with something different than what we can perceive, and that’s the beauty of it.

So maybe the wood isn’t wood and the water isn’t water and the fire isn’t fire, etc. But there is something beautiful beyond it that isn’t formed. It isn’t shaped and it isn’t dense or subtle, but it’s more unified and within that stuff and I think science is getting to a place where they’re saying, you know, they’re using woo-woo, like dark force and dark matter and fuzzy logic and they’re using these woo-woo terms that are just sort of their way of saying, “I don’t know, this thing moves because it’s some magical force we don’t understand yet.” What really is happening is within everything, is an intelligence. And that intelligence is so important for us to understand. So we have – sort of – on one hand a soul, I hate to use that word because I know that it has a negative connotation, but let’s just say awareness or cognition, something that’s watching, something that is aware that it’s watching. So you can see that I’m looking at the wall and that thing that’s looking is, we’ll call that just for the sake of it because it’s a word people know, called a soul.

But then there’s an intelligence, too. There’s an intelligence that allows the mental aggregates to function on this plane of reality, to understand the wall of six feet ahead of you and it’s too dense for you to move your body through. Right, but your mind’s thoughts are subtle enough to go through them. Your emotions can go through them. But your body, a physical body can’t, okay. So it’s telling you about densities. And that intelligence permeates everything. It permeates us. It permeates all the stuff outside of us. And we want to get to know that intelligence because that intelligence – it’s the thing that teaches a daisy to be a daisy and an apple tree to be an apple tree and a human being to grow like a human being. You see we don’t have apple trees that also sometimes make pears. We don’t have bees that also become wasps. We don’t have fish like dolphins that also become trout. Everything follows an intelligent course. And within each of those intelligent species are various cognitions. And we want to understand why all these different forms take place under this intelligent rule and why we’re observing it. So there’s got to be a purpose and principle there.

The system is set up so that we can observe and investigate in a very interesting way. So if we have any kind of consciousness about us, we can sit back and say, I have been put into a vessel so that a myriad of hidden intelligence is all around me and I have the ability to become aware of it. So it’s almost like I’ve been put into a game. And somehow or another the game is asking me to find the intelligent stuff behind everything. And I’m not really sure how to do that with my limited five senses because those don’t really tell me enough of what’s out there. And so what can I do to generate some type of new sense that can help me connect better with that intelligence? And really that in and of itself is the mystical path. That’s working the energy through the body, clearing away our old belief systems and when I say belief system, I mean it’s everything. Who we believe we are, what we believe we are, how we react emotively, all of these things. Our thoughts, speech and action is all based on beliefs. It’s not really intrinsically real. It’s based on a reactionary kind of system, that even science can say, “Oh I can determine exactly what you’re going to do at any time if I had a big enough computer because you’re really just making choices based on your societal and familiar influences.”

So as long as we have that data, we could then decide ahead of you how you’re going to think and feel. You know we’re calling that AI today. But basically we can determine how you’re going to operate. But what they can’t determine is intention. There’s something that goes beyond that field of non freedom and it’s called intention. And it’s the ability to act above a reasonable thought or intellectual thought or a mental aggregate thought. In other words, you can determine what I’m going to do next but I have something within me that can actually make me work against reason. I can work in ways that are illogical, that don’t make sense at all to the computer formula or to the AI formula. That’s what makes us intrinsically strange and weird in this world. We can do that and we can determine animals and plants and minerals, vegetation all the way through. We can determine what it’s going to do because it doesn’t have the same thing a human being has. Which is the ability to act beyond or above reason. And that’s something that’s phenomenal, that’s incredible.

So when we see the mystical path asking us to do things that don’t make a lot of sense, it’s not because we’re trying to just do things that are wacky or weird, it’s because we’re trying to break the system apart that’s holding us together in concert to create, every millisecond, the idea of us. So if we start to do things that don’t rhyme or reason with the orchestra of being us every millisecond, we start hacking it. And once we start hacking it, and I’m using kind of terms here that really involve understanding the path, but once we start hacking it, we can start to begin to activate another kind of sense. And that intuitive sense starts to turn on and it kind of goes above and beyond the five tactile senses and starts to connect us with that intelligence. And then through that evolution we can begin to start to see that there’s way more, way more beyond what we see, taste, touch and feel out there. There’s way more beyond what we think and what we habitually emote, and so on. There’s a communication in the silence that’s very bright and loud if we tune into it the right way.

So the mystical path or the occult path or the spiritual path or whatever word – it doesn’t matter – the evolutionary path of a human being is to find that higher sense, reactivate it and connect with that intelligence, and this is a process. It takes time. There is a universal way of doing this. One has to do with energy and one has to do with the way that we use our aggregate civil mind. And if we understand how to go after this, we will inevitably break through to what we call Stream entry or the Stream condition. And Streaming is when you have touched and activated that higher sense and you’re flowing with it continuously and it’s on. So yes, you’re a person and you have an identity and you’ve got an ego and you’ve got an intellect, you’ve got memory and you have your five senses and your body and all of that, just like everyone else. But behind the scenes there’s something else active. There’s something else happening. And you’re able to tune in more and more deeper and deeper into that all-encompassing intelligence that seems to be emptiness but is actually filled with radical, radiant and clear intelligence stuff. Wise stuff I should say. So essentially, that’s what the path is about. That’s how we operate through it.

Sarai: Wonderful, and I think you just touched on the- I was going to ask about, science and how that’s starting to discuss that which has been shared through sacred texts and secret teachings since the beginning of time. So through this dreaming, we are exploring the nature of reality at the subatomic or unseen level, right?

Daishi: Even beyond, yeah. So you can say it’s subatomic, you could say that it’s nano, it’s something that goes beyond nano, it’s something that goes into the nano, because everything is actually fractured in both directions. Whether it’s expansive or contractive, it’s fractured out in this structure. You can go as small as you want. You can go as big as you want. Right now I think, you know, again, I’m not a physicist as you need to have a physicist explain this but we believe that there’s a floor right now, that’s like a strings, a bunch of strings that kind of control how everything works to the atomic level and beyond. But actually in truth you can continue to move through that as well as far and as deep as you want to go forever. It’s infinite. So you can continually break it down. So as the Hadron Collider finds the god particle, it will continue and find more and more non-stuff. But within it there’ll be something that’ll be intelligent and active and then we could keep going forever through that.

You can go bigger and bigger like we say – the universe is infinite – It’s trillions of trillions of trillions. So we don’t understand how big that is. But quite literally it just keeps expanding and growing and we can go in all directions infinitely. So we can get bigger and bigger planets and bigger systems. And so the oddity of that is that where you are right now, you’re the center of all of it. You’re sitting right in the center of all of that – largest and smallest, most expensive, most contractive. And you’re in the middle of it all, you’re in the center of it all. And whether you go expand out or contract in, you’re going to discover the same kind of ideas, the same intelligence. It resides everywhere equally. So you don’t really have to travel anywhere. It’s just a matter of understanding that right now in this moment, with the right kind of level of intuitive tuning, you get you can get it all. Boom. Like that. And it can come to you immediately. You know in some traditions like the yogic tradition, they call it various levels of enlightenment or some states of Samadhi. Unified states that you go into that are more and more intense. And as you come out of them you realize the depth and nature of reality in a deeper way. But with the true enlightened state we want to carry that in our waking state.

We want it to be active and on not just when we’re sitting down or when we have flashes in our waking state but activate that constantly, so it becomes a stream. And we float and flow through that stream. And then the lower mind is no longer ruling the picture of reality any longer. We have something like, I hate to use this term and I don’t want to get caught into semantics, but the higher mind or the bigger, larger cognition or awareness, I guess, has a way of seeing things more closely related to that intelligence. It can be here and there, up and down, it can be on and off, it can be left, it can be right, it can be everywhere at one time. It understands that all of those things are right and wrong and or wrong. It can make any of those combinations work. It has unlimited ability to do that.

Once we get there we no longer need the little limited sandbox of this reality anymore because we’ve broken way past the little five senses. And we’ve moved into an intuitive kind of understanding that just allows us to understand and unify with the intelligence itself and not just see it in different forms and shapes,. Like I said, form and matter, like I see wood is dense, fire is more subtle, air is more subtle and space is even more subtle. So it just goes subtle, subtle, subtle, but in truth, it’s all the same. It’s all that intelligence and I can unify with it in any of those forms. Any of those shapes. Matter itself is intrinsically all the same stuff. And I can’t know that through limited five senses. I’ve got to know that through this intuitive factor that we call the Stream entry.

Sarai: You mentioned that meditation helps us recognize the illusory state of things in the physical, thus helping us when our physical vessel sleeps. Does this work vice versa as well like a two-way street? In other words if we could work with the deeper unconscious levels during sleep would we then automatically become more aware during the day?

Daishi: It’s absolutely true, you know, and it doesn’t matter, again, you point out, it doesn’t matter where we are with our consciousness. Whether we think we’re in a subtler realm called dream where we lose our body and we go into some other plane of reality or we go to someplace we plan. Scientists believe that’s just in the mind. But what if the mind is everything? If the mind is everything then we’re actually leaving the body somewhere or we believe we are or it doesn’t matter if we’re leaving the body or not. It’s what we perceive and perception is truth. So if we go to another realm or we experience a subtler realm of reality – if we do the same kinds of applications or methods there, they affect us here, too. Just like if we do certain applications and methods in this reality, this density, it will affect our reality there.

The more clean and clear, the crisper and the less clinging we are here in terms of our thoughts, and when I say our thoughts I mean just THE thoughts because we really don’t have many thoughts that are ours, there’s no ‘our’ there, the emotional reactions, the speech and the action of physicality, the more we release ourselves from that illusion, the massive change we see in the dream state. The massive experiences that become radically different in the dream states start to appear. And we notice that our dreams become wilder. They can change in many ways depending on what we’re working on. And again, this is an evolutionary process. So we can see that it sometimes it might be that things are enormous and everything seems to be radically emotional, and we tend to see things in a dramatic way in our dream sequences. And then as we pass through that heart center area and move into the mind center we can suddenly see that things become less dramatic and more crisp and more clean and more open and more crystal clean like radiant kind of clarity happens there.

The adventures we have in that area don’t seem to have so much emotive drama, but they seem to have a wiser kind of intelligent knowledgeable sensation that happens without all of the dense kind of emotiveness. It’s not required there. Not that it’s not there, it’s not that you don’t have sensation and feeling and all of that. It’s just that it happens in a subtler way, a purer way I should say. And so you bring that with you. But you bring it with you in such a pure way that you can sort of have trouble labeling it then. It’s like I’m not sure what to call this. It’s not a glee or a contentment or a happiness or a good excitement or joy, it’s something beyond those labels. It’s not really a heavy emotion. It’s something that transcends that into an ecstasy. And I’m not sure, you know, definitions fall away. And this is really what we want to do. We want to get to a place where we get more and more and more subtle, releasing the self more and more and slowly slip and just let go. The self can stay if we want or we let go and move on to a greater adventure – something higher, a bigger purpose. And you know, it’s like we can see that happening in sperm cells that are trying to make a baby. They’re rushing and racing to unify with the egg in order to form some crazy different kind of vessel that the sperm looks nothing like the embryo. It just has no relationship. You would never see a sperm cell and say that’s going to be a child. So we can see in nature this already happens.

The same thing happens with our awareness. We take form in a human body but what we become completely transcends anything that the human body represents in terms of form and matter. And so it’s a pretty wild ride. It’s an amazing journey, but it’s not for everybody. It’s for those people who realize life isn’t just about, you know, money, fame, fortune and death. We’re not here long enough for that to matter, you know, or making the world a great place would be phenomenal for future generations but we have to solve our own riddle first before we ever solve the riddle of what’s going on in the world. And that’s apparent to anybody that looks over the world over the last thousand, two thousand years. We just have no way of solving the world’s problems without solving us first.

Sarai: Okay, in terms of getting clear in our dreams, let’s talk about how intention helps us with our endeavor overall. Would it be useful and are we helped by the system, the universe, whatever you want to call it, to have our intention focused in the daytime on what it is we want to do and why we want to do it? For instance the ‘what’ being a strong intention for recognizing the dream and the ‘why’ perhaps being the intention to help others or even to progress along a spiritual path?

Daishi: Yeah, it’s absolutely right. I mean if we want to eat, if our body indicates that it’s hungry, we won’t take any action until there’s a desire. You know, our intention builds with the desire. So in other words, I need to go make a sandwich. Which means now I have to decide how I’m going to get to the kitchen, you know, when I’m going to get to the kitchen, now or later, how long am I going to put up with this suffering until I fulfill it, what kind of knife I’m going to use, do we have peanut butter, is there bread left? All these things happen. We go and finally make the sandwich, we eat the sandwich and the body goes through a huge digestive process in order to rip the energy out of all of that stuff and put the waste material away and give us that good energy so that we can continue to exist. That whole process is the same thing as a spiritual path. If we want to attain a connection with the intelligence through an intuitive factor that’s not active at the moment, we have to intend for that. We have to act for that. That isn’t just going to happen because of happenstance. We’re not going to fall back into it.

So we have to intend to become something more than we are today. And without that intention, how is there any desire that’s going to push us toward it? Now people get desire confused with entanglement. Those are two different things. Really, desire is healthy. And again, this is a whole separate podcast probably, but desire is a really healthy thing because it’s what we are inside. We’re all desires. It’s just simply, are we using the desire in the most effective way or not? See, if I desire heroin I could desire heroin strong. I could have a huge desire for heroin. But the overall results in karmic effect or the habit cyclical reactions that come back at me, that echo back at me for using heroin aren’t probably going to help me in any way have a better experience in life. Maybe momentarily maybe for the 20 minutes or hour that I’m high – I can say oh I had a fantastic experience. But then the rest of the week is awful and I’ve done all kinds of damage to my physiological body.

And you know I’ve wasted time and I’ve all these negative things come along with using desire that way. But if we use desire in order to become something greater than we are today, the ultimate use of desire for a human being, the pinnacle of using desire for a human being. Then we’re saying that I want to become more than I am right now. I want to become more. Now, what does that more look like I don’t have any way of knowing because you’re talking about having a sense I’ve never experienced before. So the problem with the spiritual path without having someone to help you is that I don’t know what I’m desiring. I’m simply just desiring to be more than I am today. And that isn’t really pinpointed anywhere. But it’s enough. It’s enough to get it going but it’s not enough to see it through. There has to be someone there to say okay, let me introduce this to you. Let me help you see what it is you want to get to a little bit and then once you start to taste it or see it, you can say yes, that’s it! Or you can say no, that’s not it. But at least you’ll have the window open to have the opportunity to notice it, whether that’s really where you want to point your desire or not.

That’s what having a good teacher, tutor, friend relationship, guru. Whatever you want to call it relationship, is vital. Because if you don’t have that you can sit down and meditate till you’re blue in the face. It doesn’t mean your intention and desire are pointed correctly. And if they’re not pointed correctly you’re wasting decades. And I’ve known meditators that are really sharp, very focused meditators that are incredible. They can sit for 5 hours straight. It doesn’t necessarily mean they’re achieving anything but making their mind sharper, more clear, more focused. That’s great. You can calculate numbers better. Probably you’re wittier than most people or maybe you’re a better programmer because of that. But that’s not the evolutionary path of a mystic. A mystic wants to activate a certain kind of sense that then touches the intelligence of the universe. And in order to do that, in order to form that intention, you need a helper for that.

You’ve got to have someone who says, “Okay, this is kind of where you need to start and where you need to go and then it will begin to introduce itself. And once you start to see it, you can say yes, I’m beginning to taste this and I know this feeling in my intuitiveness where I want to let go and I want to keep leading in that direction and then you build from there. And it is not easy. And the way that we’ve addressed or we talked about the path generally in society today is that it’s just, you know, as simple as sitting down and sort of thinking about not thinking for a few minutes and you know you go off and you’ve become a mystic to some extent. There is an entire system of process here that goes along with this. And it’s understanding that there are two fundamental parts.

One is reduction of the attachments to the self and the other is proper use of energy. Those two things have to be inevitably united together. In other words, impartial compassion connection. Our energy has to be increased and it has to be impartial by reducing the minds transient illusory selfing nature. So one goes down and one goes up. And that is a slippery slope that needs help to follow through on because you’re not just going to get that by, again, just guessing. It’s like saying I, you know, I don’t know what an airplane is but I’ll try to build one from scratch. And you can tell me if it’s good or not. And you’re going to end up with a billion people creating a billion different things that have nothing to do with flying in the air. Does that make sense?

Sarai: It does make sense, thank you. And you just touched on energy and a recent Drukama podcast titled ‘Tummo and balloon breathing’. You talked about how the inner heat affects recall, vividness and having more control in our dreams. Does this have to do with the winds or power of prana cleansing the network of channels? Does this enable us to see the quality and depth of the dreams change?

Daishi: Absolutely. And we’re about to go through a tremendous enhancement of the way that we are expressing the teachings by having week by week courses come out. One part of it being the waking meditative side and one part of it being the seated meditative side. And the practitioner can decide whether they want to do one or the other or both and then follow the coursework each week. And we just simply introduce new kinds of methods that add on to it more and more. And what are we adding on to? We’re adding on to the way in which, for lack of a better word, let’s call it light – let’s say light is the energy that gives us breath and it gives us the ability to have cognition. It gives us the ability to recall things and have memory, intellect, ego, etc.

That energy, wherever that’s coming from, our breath, food, you know somewhere, the heart’s beating because of this electric impulse. And the electric impulse is a gift given from this intelligence all around us. Once that starts to flow within us in greater ways and isn’t as blocked and weak. Like right now we’d sort of say we’re a weak cell tower. We’re just not getting a whole bunch of energy and this is why we’re just – sometimes you’ll hear something, especially a practitioner can vouch for this. They’ll hear something in a teaching or a Sutra and they’ll say, “I don’t grasp that concept.”

Or, “I’m not really sure I understand that.” And then later after some practice they’ll come back to it and say, “Oh, I completely get that, that paragraph or sentence or that idea now.” And some way or another a little bit more lights come into the vessel and it’s giving them a little more conscious power, some pathways have opened up, and they’re able to, because of that amplification of light, grasp that concept or idea.

That is a very important part of the path – is to be able to clear and to amplify the light that actually fills the vessel, so that we have the ability to really focus in on the deepest aspects of the idea or concept or the challenge or formula or problem or whatever it is. You know, could be even a correction. But the more light we get into that vessel the stronger we become in terms of our ability to grasp and understand and know. And so yes, the meridians or the channels of the body have to be opened so that light can fill and sort of pass by and through all of those areas and enlighten them. That’s why we call it enlightenment. It’s more light. It’s the ability to grasp more of that diamond like radiant clarity so that we can say, “I get that idea, you know. And not only do I get that idea but I can go deeper into it now more still. And it isn’t even a binary or dual way I see it. I see it in an intuitive way that can’t be even spoken about. It goes beyond.” And this is such an important part of it – that without having knowledge of that process and those methods, just sitting is what I call relaxing. So, when most people come and say, “Oh, yeah, I can sit for an hour without any problems.” And I say ,”Well, what do you do?” And they say, “I close my eyes,

I relax and I just sort of watch my thoughts and I breathe and I watch my breath.” And I say,”This is a fantastic practice. It’s called relaxing. It’s very good for your body. It helps your heart. It helps your blood. It cleans you up physiologically, it’ll help you live longer to give you a better life. It’ll remove you from emotional reactions. It’ll help you get away from mind stream.” But this isn’t necessarily what we’re doing. That’s part of it, that’s a side effect, but we want specifically to gain that light at a very high voltage for lack of a better word, a very high level so that we can utilize it to investigate and explore. And then once we investigate and explore and we unite with our investigations, in other words, we become what we’re investigating – we don’t just watch it, we become it. Then we get to really know it. And if we really know it, we get added to it. We become connected with it.

So the more that I reach and expand and know and unite, the more I become the things that I’m exploring and expanding. And if I do that throughout this entire system, I unite with the entire system, with each person, with each tree, with each blade of grass. I become the system itself. I’m filled with the system. So the system is actually me operating. And that is the ultimate liberating factor. That’s where I say I can move now past it, because I’ve united with it all. So that’s a deep and heavy idea and I get that that’s probably too woo-woo for most people but that’s truly the objective when it comes to what we call light or energy or prana or chi or whatever terms we want to use.

Sarai: Are these vessels or sheaves that we investigate with, that we use to traverse the realms with, related to the levels of chakras or the chakra system, the energy centers of the body?

Daishi: They can be. They can be related to the spheres of the Kabbalah, they can be related to the chakras of the yogic system or the dantians of the Chinese system. You know, these major hubs, the thoroughfares in the body, seem to be pretty universal throughout the world in all the systems. They’re pretty much set up the same way, whether you’re in South America, South Africa, North America, China, Japan, no matter where you go, every great master has come to the same kinds of conclusions in the end. They may have started differently, they may have had different views along the way, but at the end of the day, they all say it’s such. And they tell us that there are some major thoroughfares of energy in the body and there’s minor thoroughfares of energy in the body and we should focus on the major thoroughfares. And the question becomes – how do we get enough power into these thoroughfares so that we begin to become more able to expand, connect and unify with the object of contemplation? How can we build that kind of energy so that we bypass the limiting system of the dualistic mind?

Overcoming that which blocks us from uniting and then unite and know what it is we’re contemplating. And that comes through a specific process of creating and stimulating a certain kind of energy in the body that’s dormant. We call it the life force energy and that life force energy sits at the bottom base of the body and it sort of is just there waiting for us to activate it, to stimulate it and to get it moving. Once it starts to move and once it starts to get active it works its way progressively through each of these channels in each of these major thoroughfares and slowly illuminates these different areas. And as this happens based on each practitioner we go through what we call corrections and rhythms. And really what that is, is it’s different kinds of energies that prior to that moment we didn’t want to face.

We were fearful of or we just weren’t ready to face it all. And as it begins to activate it starts to open us up to greater power of energy and then we have to determine whether we want to unify with that and continue or back off and slow down and stop. Now, many practitioners have moved very quickly down the path, ignited very heavy energies and then stalled because they didn’t realize that I’ve just accepted this much and I really have rejected anything more than that. And I’m kind of sitting here in this space working this out and it’s not that they’re not moving forward. It’s just that right now at their particular path they’re working through the courage of uniting and understanding the energy they have at this moment. Once that becomes acceptable and okay with them then they can move on to bigger – okay, I’m ready for more now. And then naturally and organically more energy can come, a higher thoroughfare can activate, more light can go into the vessel and they can move on to bigger challenges.

These challenges, as a final thought here, you know, this can be a 15-week discussion, but the challenges here are how we handle those interactions or corrections or rhythms. Sometimes those rhythms are really dark and heavy and they’re left-sided, right, they’re one kind of way. They could be painful, they could be scary, they could be frightening. And another way they could be warm and gentle and kind and loving and back and forth these kinds of rhythms hit us. Because different kinds of energies are being activated and it’s up to us, it’s incumbent on the practitioner to determine how they’re going to overcome those corrections and how fast they’re going to overcome those corrections. And this all goes into the person’s personal path. You know, how much am I going to take on, how much am I going to refuse to fall into unconsciously, how much am I going to use my strong intention to face consciously and so on and so forth. If I’m able to continue I can move very quickly through the path. If I’m able to face things and have these things shown to me I can move quickly through the path if I have a high intention. But if my intention is weak and my level of will is weak then I might move very slowly. One little step a year, you know, one little step a decade, one little step a lifetime.  So it’s really up to each individual practitioner how fast they go from point A to point Z on this you know so-called path.

Sarai: Let’s say that we do finally get to a point of being naturally clear. We are able to astral project or we get to a point of being able to maintain lucidity in the dream and we noticed our surroundings – what should we do then?

Daishi: That’s a big question about somebody who’s reached an end point of the path. And really when somebody gets to the place where they’re becoming constantly lucid and constantly wakeful, there are very advanced applications and methods at that point for that person to move from that stable position to the final position or to the ending position. Because what happens at Stream is really at that borderline of us becoming clear, whether it’s in the dream or in the waking state on earth or our day-to-day waking state is irrelevant, but when we get to a place where we don’t have any corrections we have a joyful kind of seeking happening and things are not rattling us at all.

So we’ve kind of overcome all of these corrections and we’re sort of sitting at a plateau. Then that’s an important time for the teacher to come in and say, “Okay, let me introduce you to a new kind of idea, concept, thought, method, etc.” And then you kind of move along that way, you start to look at what – because what happens to the practitioner, they get to a place where they say, “Ok, I’ve mastered this (or I believe I have) and I’m not being challenged anymore, and I’m at a place where I feel consistently conscious and nothing’s rattling me. I’m away from the self, the transit illusory nature of reality. I’ve overcome, I’m courageous and I’m courageous either in wakeful states here, in the dream, doesn’t matter and now how do I break through to that final space?” And that is a very important final stage of Stream entry for any practitioner. Obviously we wouldn’t go through that on this podcast because it would be a little inappropriate, but that would be a personal kind of relationship you’d have with your teacher, and that teacher would then explain to you what they’d have you do in order to break through that final barrier that would open you up to experience the ultimate nature of reality, which is that intelligence. Sort of introduced you face-to-face to that intelligence.

Sometimes that’s called a direct transmission, you know, they call them all kinds of things, pith instructions, secret instructions, they’re not so much that it’s secret, it’s just that you couldn’t do it or understand it, or it could be unhealthy if you tried to do it before you were ready for it, because you would be trying to attempt something that you’re just not- your level of preparedness is not there. So it would be like somebody who said, you know, “I have a bunch of toy airplanes and I’ve, you know, since for the last 10 years I fly them around with my hand, can I get on a commercial 747 and fly that?” No, not at all, you’ll kill everybody. So there’s a progression there. But once somebody gets good at the flight simulator and when it’s about time to get on the plane, then they need a pilot to walk and sit them down and say, “Okay, I’m going to fly this plane with you now and you’re actually going to take control, and if anything goes wrong I’m going to take control back, and I’m going to let you get really used to this.” That’s why we have, in all forms of training and teaching, throughout all human history, we’ve always had apprenticeships. And we’ve always had helpers and teachers and guides that have been able to kind of say, oop, turn left, watch your levels, you know, watch your altitude and all kinds of things.

At that point when somebody reaches a state where they’re clear consistently and they’re no longer challenged by rhythms, either two things happen – one: the teacher introduces new rhythms, stronger challenges, stronger corrections or final corrections – or two: introduces them to stream breakthrough. And at that point they connect with the divine or what we call that great intelligence that’s beyond all physical form. And hopefully they seal it, they lock it in. What typically happens, and we don’t need to go into it now, maybe we’ll do a show on it, but what typically happens is, that state flashes before people or they get a taste of it and they say, “I touched the divine. I touched some kind of space that was beyond me, that was, you know, something that I can’t explain. It was so clear, was so crisp but I couldn’t hold it.”

So the idea, that’s called middling, and we have to get back to that space and then maybe fall back into binary dualistic mind, and then go back into that stream space and fall back. And then back and forth we go until we eventually kind of remove all entanglements to the residue of the old small transient self all together and this streaming self becomes actuated, consistently and permanently. And it’s just on. There’s no action to do it, it’s just active. That’s the pristine state that one wants to get to in the mystical path. They hold that state. It’s not apparent to anyone else but them because you can’t see it or understand it, but from there the journey, in my opinion, actually begins because at that point, once Stream is held, the universe opens up in a whole new way in terms of exploration. So, maybe in another show we’ll talk about middling Stream entry a little bit more and we can talk about the ideas of that so that it’s, you know, more easily grasped in the future.

Sarai: I look forward to that show as well. And now that you’ve talked about the vessels and what may be occurring in our dreams, let’s go on to the astral worlds. Sometimes the astral worlds are referred to astral planes, astral realms or the heavens. Religions and races have written of this concept since ancient times using various names and themes and there’s various thoughts in the number of levels as well. Would you enlighten us as to where all these dreams are occurring?

Daishi: It depends where the person is at in their own personal perception because, really, we talked about those energy thoroughfares where the majority of my awareness is being held. And we are unconscious – typically – to where we’re holding it in those thoroughfares. We don’t really know until a certain point on the path that we become really clear and aware of where we’re holding our awareness, or where it’s stationed, where it’s conglomerated, where most of the energy is risen to or so to speak or fallen to. That dictates how we perceive not only this reality but all of the dream reality as well, and so there are different levels. Somebody who is in the guttural place of the body, at the beginning portion of being a human being is going to have very strange, weird and I hate to use the word but they can be very kind of creepy dreams where you wake up and you’re like, “Wow, that was very weird and bizarre and I’m not sure I understood any of it.” And it may have involved like weird, you know, blood and strange kinds of scenarios that you would think – why would I even think of these things? Because you don’t. It’s not really part of what you really are, it’s just part of what the intelligence is.

I’s the same way we can look at thoughts. Like they’re not your thoughts, there’s just part of the thought consciousness that swirls around the entire humanity. We all have the same thoughts, we all have the same desires at these different levels. So somebody at Level 7, all Level 7 people are going to think and intend the same way. They’re going to have the same dream experiences, they’re going to have the same waking experiences – so, to a certain extent – I’m talking about generally how they perceive them. And the people who are at level 1 are all going to generally think the same, react the same and have the same kind of physical responses. So this ladder, for lack of a better word, these stations, levels or these subtle planes of reality are all dependent on where we are consciously. And humanity is in a huge different variety of conscious levels.

We have some people at level one and some people at level, you know, a hundred. So you’ve got wild and crazy beings on this planet that are at a very low level of conscious wakefulness. They don’t understand anything around them, they’re not curious about it, they’re not really self-aware, they’re not really interested in becoming self-aware because the intention and desire isn’t pointed there at all. They just want basic survival, you know, sex, basic food needs, clothing needs, money, you know, basic kind of survival, living fulfillment. And then you have others that start to achieve greater worldly desires until the worldly desires like fame and fortune and knowledge and so on, even control, that becomes not enough. Then we start to look at the mystical desires. “I want to become a little bit more saintly in terms of how I treat other people, connect with other people, love other people. I don’t like the partiality. I want to be impartial in terms of how I see and view people. I have, you know, some way I’m thinking that I shouldn’t judge because I can’t even judge my own awareness, my own thoughts, my own conditions. I don’t even know how I got here. How am I going to judge other people, God forbid.”

So, we have people at that level that want to now learn how to be more impartial with their judgments and accept people more. And on and on and on we go through this process. And these processes, these levels, these stations dictate and determine what level and station we end up with either at our dreaming or at death. Because dreaming is like a little death each night. It’s sort of a reflection of where we are that day. It’s not a reflection of where we are through our lifetime. So you can have a terrible nightmare one night – it doesn’t mean that you’re going to hell. It just means that day was reflecting a lot of interesting energy reactions and they’re reflecting in your dream if you happen to recall it. And you could have dreams that are beautiful heavenly pure land kind of crystallized beauty and you could say well that’s fantastic but really that’s just a reflection of maybe where you were that day or that week and those can change rapidly. Your awareness can drop. So it’s hard to take a dream position and use that as a place of judgement because it can fluctuate so much.

But what doesn’t fluctuate so much is your waking reality here. We’re more dense here in this reality. So here we can keep, even though it’s very short, even though we only have you know, 80 years, 60 years if we’re lucky somewhere around there, we can judge our waking states here a little more easier because it’s more linear. And the dreamscape is more circular because we get outside of time a little bit and it’s too hard to navigate, you know, where we are. You notice in a dream we never look at, you know, was it Tuesday? You know, is it nighttime or daytime? People don’t do that in the dream. They never wonder but you know what about the bills that they have at home? People don’t go into their dreams and worry about their college payments or what they’re going to do with their job the next day. They don’t go to their dreams and worry about the water bill they’re stressed about that day. You know, that’s not regularly what we do. We don’t look at the time or wonder, you know, is it noon and look up at the sun. Usually dreams are very bizarre in that we’re in a different kind of reality. But here on Earth we have sort of a static linear environment and it works really well and that’s why we want an Earth body. That’s the beauty of being in this miserable place that we sometimes- hey is that an Earth body – gives us a linear experience and we can use that as a step stool and a gauge and kind of watch that. Not so much the dreams but we can watch the linear stages of time in our waking states and see, “How have I changed?” It’s really hard for us to determine that without having a teacher or some kind of guide because we see ourselves every single day.

As I’ve said many times before, I’ve seen practitioners go away from their family or friends, go on the path for a little while maybe six months to a year and come back and people have said you know you’re a totally different person. Like you’ve completely changed but the person doesn’t feel different at all. In fact they may feel like they haven’t done anything but the people around them will most certainly notice a change. Your buttons aren’t the same that’s why we see so many relationships fail on the path. And so, you know, you don’t react the same way. You don’t think the same way. You’re not as judgmental, you’re not as tantrum based, you’re not as emotive, you’re not as reactionary so what’s going on? It’s just that you’re cleaning house. You’re advancing and you can’t notice that very easily. So you need a guide that kind of says, I know where you’re going, you’re doing fine, stay where you’re at and let’s either amp this up a little bit, let’s go a little faster, come on, or hey, slow down just a bit here and take advantage of this and pay attention. And that’s why I always stress the importance of a teacher. It’s really important to have a guide that has been there before and understands it, so that they can kind of help you get through it as efficiently as possible.

So, in conclusion, dream states are much harder to determine how your path is going because they can be more random and more circular but the worldly state is more linear, it’s more flat, sort of just follows a flow that goes forward so we can kind of gauge here better. And that’s why you always read in the ancient texts it’s great to be in those higher heavenly realms which we call dream realms or heavens. But the Earth realm is one of the best, most important places if it comes to your liberating factor, if it comes to you getting out and realizing because in this place we have a linear sort of time and space environment and that gives us a really great way to gauge one step at a time that we don’t have in these circular kinds of weird other subtle dimensions up there that we call different planes of existence, and the other beings that reside there.

Sarai: You mentioned a ladder. This reminded me of the sacred texts and how some refer to climbing Jacob’s ladder for example. You also mentioned being asleep at night, being like a mini death. And this reminded me of near-death experiences. So, when people experience near-death experiences, some saying that they’re beautiful and some obviously having just the opposite, as if experiencing like a hell. Is this reflective of what we will experience when our physical vessel dies, what we will experience in between incarnations, or not necessarily?

Daishi: Then in a way it does, and I’ll tell you why. If you were to die that night in that condition, then you would have died in that experience, right? So you would have accepted that perception as it is, and that’s the perception you would carry on with you. That’s why it’s so important for us to get into a Stream condition that goes above and beyond us fettering around with form and matter and drama and intrigue and emotions and reactions and all these things, that can fluctuate us all over the place. Because, if we were to die, like let’s say, you know you, die, god forbid, by a bus hitting you and you see the bus before it hits you – you would want that person that got hit by that bus to immediately be reminded that that death and the fear that they’re going to carry on with that death does not have to be the way they go through their death experience.

In the old days, old, old days in the ancient times, we’re told that the way that a person had died was crucial, it was very important and the shamans or the priests or the wizards of the towns or collectives would be there to support the person that just died, their spirit or whatever carried on after. They’d make sure that they did specific kinds of rituals to help remind that spirit that they do not have to accept naturally the state that they’re in right at that moment, that they could change that perception. They didn’t necessarily have to carry that with them. The entire path is about us getting to a state where we are dictating our perception, and the perception is not being dictated to us. So if the truck hits us, we laugh just like if the lion eats us, just like if we jump off a bridge. We’re going to dictate how we experience that event because we’re disconnected from our untangled form, the illusory idea of me, the small little me-self. Once we get disconnected or untangled from that, then we’re not attached to any kind of experience where you have sinned or you’re going to have to go to hell because you’ve done a bunch of bad things, or your karma is going to play this way or happen to be caught up in this crazy moment, and because of that I died in confusion and suffering and sadness.

Now, this is going to lead to a bigger question, I know it will, which is, well does karma matter then? And that is a fantastic question and I’m glad you asked but that’s something I think we would have to have this whole separate podcast for because karma does matter, to a certain extent, depending on how we’ve overcome it or used it. And this is all part and parcel of the path and understanding the evolution of the path as well. In other words, can we forgive ourselves, can we forgive others for the unconscious mistakes that we or others have made, impartially, because that’s what Stream is. Stream is looking at another human and saying of course you’re going to do something crazy like this because you’re half unconscious. Just same way we look at a child and say of course the child is going to throw a glass across the room, it doesn’t know what it’s doing, it has no idea about the cause and effect of that or that it’s going to create a mess or a potential hazard for the baby and everyone else around it, it doesn’t realize its action affects everyone and echos outward, it doesn’t have that kind of awareness. So we don’t blame the child.

So then the same way the child can do a number of terrible things, it’s not ever going to hell. But as soon as we get an identity, hell becomes real, because now we’re attached to all kinds of terrible things other people have done that we judge them for, unnecessarily and unreasonably, and things that we’ve done, that we judge ourselves for, unreasonably and unnecessarily. So we want to get free of that judgment, the analysis, the abstraction, the iterations of this little PC-mind, this little crazy, little dualistic mind that I have to either be left or right, up or down, I have to be good or bad, I have to be one or the other. No, you’re just an experiencing, that’s growing and becoming a bigger experiencing. And this little vessel that you happen to be in is a way that you’re experiencing this reality so you can get to that understanding. You don’t have to carry anything with you if you don’t want to but you’ve got to learn how to get rid of it for real. And here’s the important part – not intellectually. In other words you can’t think this through, it has to be a real experience. It has to be known within you, it has to be experiential through and through. So you can’t just say, okay, I get that concept therefore I’m free of it. No, you’re not, because the next day you wake up, you’re going to be miserable again, you’re going to find confusion again, you’re going to find rhythms you can’t handle again. So therefore it shows you right there through that fact itself you haven’t cleared up the matter.

So what the path does, is the path clears up the matter through and through all the way from top to bottom from the most conscious to the most unconscious. And once you’re clean and through, that’s real stream, that’s real liberation. And that’s really what the path is trying to get you to, that bully-free, clear, radiant mindedness that allows you to be, you can play the game, you can be in the theater of life and you can have a great time doing it, but you’re not invested in it. The only thing you’re invested in is the other beings here that are suffering because they haven’t gotten to that place and you feel for them. So you understand, “Hey, how come you’re not playing this game like I am? How come you’re not having fun with me? Let’s have fun here. Let’s love each other. Let’s be friends. Let’s go have fun and enjoy this life, the limited time we have here and be as happy and as free-spirited as possible.” Well, the friend can’t do that because they’re all hung up, deeply, unconsciously hung up, on a bunch of selfing issues, like hell, and which heaven am I going to get to, and am I a good enough person, and my mom said I was terrible, so I must be and all these little hang-ups and insecurities and fears that we talked about in the beginning – those have to be cut through. Once they’re cut through, we can all giggle, laugh, we can love each other impartially, which is the way we should love, that’s the only way love exists. And we should see each other with total freedom and with insight and clarity of mind. And that’s what the path is about always. Any authentic path and that’s where we want to get people. We need it now more than ever because today we’re more divided than ever. We’re either on one side or the other and we’re ready to kill each other over it. That is insane. We’re at the peak of insanity. And, you know, it’s craziness. We need to break away from it, we need to start to become more reasonable and we need to understand the nature of ourselves. And that’s what this whole idea is. That’s what our mission is. So that’s essentially where we want to take people, anyone who’s interested. And if they’re not interested in doing it with us, hopefully they’re interested in doing it with somebody because the world needs it more now, like I said, than ever.

Sarai: Thank you. And thankfully at Drukama teaching center we have the support to help us dictate our own experience as you said, to go beyond those attachments, to knock down the artificial walls, to affect genuine wisdom, reveal true compassion. And we have access to our revelation of the hidden realms of reality, that unseen and unbelt all around us.

Daishi: This is true. We have many Adepts and tutors and eachers in the school that have experienced incredible perceptions of reality that go way beyond the five senses. It’s good to be surrounded by those kinds of people and so, get yourself around those kinds of people and let them kind of bleed on to you, for lack of a better word.

Sarai: Thank you very much. Drukama.com is now open for limited registration. Do you have any news for us about the website?

Daishi: We are going through a major overhaul in terms of how we’re going to drive the teachings because we see that some people that are householders can’t necessarily do a lot of seated practices. So we’ve made a waking-only practice process that we’re about to put into place. It’s going to change the whole way we teach it. So for those people who don’t have time, they have a busy life, they’ve got a family or school or many jobs and so on and you know things that are really important to them, they’re able to do a waking process that is – just allows them to use tools during their waking, daily moment-by-moment states and not have to worry too much about seated practices which can be much more intense and heavy. And we also have a section that’s devoted strictly to seated practices if you want to be really intense about your practice. And you can do both at once if you wanted to get super ultra intense. So that’s going to be a major change that’s coming into play here in the next couple weeks and we’re really excited about that because we listen to feedback people have given us and that’s something that they want to see, so we’re going to do it that way for them, to make it easier, because the idea here is to make it as easy as possible for everybody.

Sarai: Thank you so much Daishi for being with us today and sharing your penetrating understanding of dreams in the astral worlds.

Daishi: You’re welcome. Thank you for having me you’ve been excellent, I love you and I love everybody listening. I hope you guys have the most blissful and wonderful day, week, year and I hope to see you at the site soon so we can talk personally.

Sarai: If you have any questions or comments about the show please email us at radio@drukama.com. You can also find us in all the usual places on social media. Just search for Drukama Teachings. The transcript for this show is also available on drukama.com. Thanks for joining us for today’s show. We look forward to seeing you next time.