Drukama RadioTM Episode 51 – How the Mind Creates the Illusion of Bondage

Today Daishi and Deliyahu discuss the mind and the illusion of slavery we find ourselves in. How does the mind control us and create this sense of imprisonment? Why is suffering sometimes necessary to wake us up to the experience of bondage? Why is it that some of us are not able to recognize our own enslavement? How can we awaken to this control mechanism and regain our freedom?

How the Mind Creates the Illusion of Bondage - Drukama Radio™ Ep 51 - Drukama Teachings™

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Episode 51 Extract

How the Mind Creates the Illusion of Bondage

“Why am I going through all of this nonsense? Why am I running around like a chicken with my head cut off from one thing to another… one romance… one job… one salary to another?

…And I’m going to end up in the dirt like every other poor sap before me… I don’t know how long that’s going to take but it will happen for sure.

What’s going on?”

“What happens if somebody’s… not really sure they have an option… that there’s anything more than what they see in front of them? …We say that someone’s not ready for the Path until they’ve broken into this desperate wanting of change, saying something’s got to give. But… once they start to see there’s another option, there isn’t a human being on Earth that doesn’t want to take that… They may not understand it right away… Maybe that’s too big, too wild, too crazy, but… that will help stir it faster and give them the ability to start to contemplate… That will eventually fructify into something beautiful, fast.

It’s always important to present the option… You don’t have to live like this. I mean you can… if you’re happy with where you’re at… and you’re doing okay, I’m not going to bother you…

But there is an option, if you’re not doing okay.”

~ Daishi Nagiyah

Full Transcript of This Episode

Deliyahu: Hi everyone and welcome to Drukama radio. I’m your co-host today, Deliyahu, and we are very pleased to have Daishi with us again today. Daishi, might I ask how you doing?

Daishi: I’m doing great, it’s good to hear your voice. I’m happy to do this show with you today. Let’s get into it.

Deliyahu: Great. So today’s topic is, “How the mind creates the illusion of bondage.” And the understanding of bondage for me is like a thought of being enslaved or being held captive or governed by some outside force. And through the course of our lives, we feel that there’s no way out, and some of us have even been led to believe that it’s their path dictates their future, and they feel bonded to that or bound to that, I should say. It brings me to a story of this cow that had an owner and the owner had always tethered the cow via a rope to a post before he went to sleep, and he’s been doing this throughout most of the life of the cow and one night that the owner just brought the cow into the pen and did not tether it.

So when he came back the next morning and he wanted to have the cow go out, the cow would not move because it thought that it was still being tethered. The owner kept prodding it and pushing it and pulling it and the cow would not budge. Then the owner, figuring out what the cow was probably feeling or thinking, decided to make believe that he was untethering the cow from the post and in doing so, once the cow thought he was now being freed, began to walk outside of the pen. And that’s pretty much how a lot of us feel sometimes. You feel that we’re stuck in a situation and even though there’s a way out we don’t recognize that way out and we still live our life the way we think it’s being dictated to us.

Daishi: It’s a beautiful analogy. It directly relates to the way that every practitioner feels when they wake up to the fact that they’re tethered to that corral, and there’s really no way to go anywhere, because our desires drive us in every moment. We don’t really have a relationship with how those desires act and how they drive on us and because of that we end up feeling sort of tethered down, locked down, chained down and controlled and governed. In a way, that’s very real because although you’re right, when you say that the tether isn’t really there, the reins have been let go of and we do have the freedom to be what we are, until we actually realize that. And it’s not through thinking about it or somehow perceiving it through another person or anything like that, it’s when we really, really understand that on the deepest levels of our perception, that we understand that we can just be free right now and and it’s absolutely true.

It doesn’t feel like that. I want to make that clear. It doesn’t feel like that but that is actually the truth of the matter. Everything else about the spiritual path is really getting to that realization, and sometimes there’s a lot of things underlying that will resist our ability to really feel free, and so we have to constantly renew, and invigor those habitual tendencies to die down and go away, so that that freedom feeling can not only continually exist but actually deepen in greater and greater ways.

Deliyahu:  Do you think that changing your attitude or your mindset would help out in such a thing, and how would you even know? I mean how would one even figure out that there is no bondage? For example, in my own situation when I was younger, I felt that what was being handed to me or how I was living life was just the way it is. Although I never felt like I was bound to it, I still felt that there was some sort of a direction that was being handed to me and that’s how I had to live, but it wasn’t until I myself realized that this is not where I want to go, I want to change my life, did I realize that I wasn’t bound. But not everybody’s like that and I’m just wondering if it’s just a mindset that would take you out of it?

Daishi: Those are two really important questions. One is how do you come to know that situation’s real and the other is, what do you do about it? The, “How do you come to know about it?” we can talk about first, I think. Most people will have enough suffering in their lives. In other words, even unconsciously there’ll be enough doing the same thing again and again, in other words following a desire and fulfilling that desire again and again, until we never get fulfillment or resolution to that. That stirs us up enough to wake up to the fact that something’s wrong, that I keep going out, I wake up each day, I go out and do the same things thinking that at some point I’m going to find this perfect satisfaction, and all I find is trouble and misery in the world. It keeps adding and it never really gives me what I’m looking for mentally, emotionally, physiologically or externally in food, stuff, items, money, love, romance, etc. So we never really get that.

What happens is your unconscious, the system itself perpetuates your conscious wakefulness at some point. Unfortunately, not the whole world is at that place. Not everybody has come to that realization yet, but that’s what it does. It brings you to a place where you say, “I’ve done it. It doesn’t work, believe me. I’ve done it again and again and again. It doesn’t get me anywhere. It’s not going to get you anywhere either but you’re going to have to figure that out on your own. But for me, I know for a fact if I don’t understand how my desires are working and they’re just leading me around and I’m just fulfilling them and they’re never satiating me, there’s a problem.” And at that moment you realize, “I need to break the tether that’s holding me to this corral. I just don’t know how.”

That leads us to the second part of your question which is, how do you do it? And that’s the pointing-out part. And it’s not as easy as the cow analogy or the horse analogy or the mule analogy, but it’s the same kind of thing. You have to first understand there is a corral and a tether and you and what these things are and how you undo them habitually. In other words, “Why, if there’s no tether, am I still standing here as a mule? Why does somebody have to come pretend that they’re untethering me so that I can move on?” This is because the way that we’re programmed and influenced from the moment we get incepted, the moment we become birthed out through the canal and into the world, we’re being inundated by influences and those influences shape and form the robotic nature of our reactionary system.

So the thing we think is us is nothing more than a bunch of synaptic programmed responses and reactions. We associate so deeply with that thing, that it takes quite a bit of nudging away from it before we realize, “I’m not that, and not just not that, I’m not that in a way that’s so epic that it’s actually going to bring me to a higher state of conscious clarity, a higher state of realization that I become absolutely satiated in my desire continuously because I’ve now become conscious of that process and I no longer seek it out there. I’ve already got it in here.”

Deliyahu: Would you say that going through a very difficult moment in life could wake you up to that realization that you have to move on without being bound, or that you’re not bound? Going through the worst moments in your life would awaken that in you, to move forward into something else that’s better?

Daishi: I think for sure that in most cases, and not every case. God bless those that don’t go through this, but in most cases, for most of us, real normal people, we have to go through something really bad, enough to stir us to the point where we start to say, “Wait a minute, I need to ask what’s going on here.” There’s a wakefulness, it’s sort of like when there’s a fire in the house you don’t run up to someone sleeping and say, “Psst, hey, wake up. Hey, I don’t want to wake you up too rough, I just want you to know that the house is burning and we got a few seconds to get out of here.” No, you grab the person, shake them and you run them down the stairs as fast as possible. Well that’s a very violent and rude and mean thing to do, however you’re saving their lives, so the intention in that case is actually different than what we perceive the action to be.

In the same way, it happens when we look into the world. We see some terrible thing, some awful event but it actually serves to wake us up and save us. So that awful thing out there, the terrible thing out there actually works for good, and we don’t really recognize it that way but truthfully it does do that and we suddenly come up with these ideas like, “Why am I going through all of this nonsense? Why am I running around like a chicken with my head cut off from one thing to another, from one romance to another, from one job to another, from one salary to another? And I just keep going and I go and I go, and I’m going to end up in the dirt like every other poor sap before me, when no one’s going with me and none of my stuff’s going with me and I don’t know how long that’s going to take but it will happen for sure. What’s going on?” And that wakefulness is a blessing. How to move forward from there, whole different subject but that wakefulness is vital for a spiritual person to have and before that happens, you’re not going to have any luck trying to get somebody to become spiritual who has not reached that point yet.

Deliyahu: Well I think, like you said, one has to realize that themselves. There’s no one that’s going to walk you through it or whisper to wake up. You have to come to that conclusion yourself. I feel it and in my own life, there’s been many situations where I myself, I could have easily fell into the mindset of, “I’m the victim and I can’t get myself out of this,” and fortunately I’ve had that the wakefulness not to let it govern my life, and I used it as a propelling agent for me to keep going forward and that’s how I came to find a teacher. But I know also there’s people that find themselves stuck in situations and they don’t know how to get out, and I feel like those are people that need to have some sort of an outside guidance, like a teacher or guru or someone who’s been through it, who can help them out to it, because if they don’t, like I said, they find themselves in these situations and their whole life is just unfortunately spent being dictated to.

Daishi: Absolutely right, it’s a situation where if we don’t have somebody who truly cares about us and invests themselves in us completely, that has reached some kind of level free from that governance, that system governance, then we’re in a lot of trouble because that relationship won’t be authentic. They’re not going to really want us to succeed unless they get something from it and that won’t work. That’s not a situation that’s going to make any success. It’s only when someone has no investment and is only present to your needs, literally they’ve kind of vanquished their own neediness, that they can then turn around and honestly love you enough or care about you enough to say, “I really want you to get this and I know you want it because you’re wakeful to it. You’ve gotten to that place and now come on, let me show you how I did it and how you can also take what I did and save yourself some trouble.”

As we continually hand that down from one person to another, we make it modified and greater and better and easier because now the next person says, “Not only did I learn this, but I also found other ways. There are other ways that are easier and so let me show you this.” And the next person says to the one below, “Hey guess what, a couple people above me have figured this out, I’m going to give it to you now and show you an even better way because they’ve solved some things and I’ve also solved some things to spare you.” And through this loving intention and through this compassion, it becomes greater and greater until the path becomes nothing more than a pointing-out at some point.

But in the beginning, as we come out of this really dark age of hateful confusion and delusion that the world’s under, you make sweet for bitter now, we turn things that are actually not good for us and we think that they’re good for us and we use them as if they’re good for us, but they actually keep us in bondage longer. We can’t rectify that problem. We don’t know how to, we don’t know how to switch that around, how to see correctly. You need someone to help you understand how I’m supposed to see because I’m not sure what that looks like. How am I supposed to feel and sense? Where is this state that I’m in or that I had as an infant, that somehow I lost and now I’m desperate and confused and deluded and angry and bitter and depressed? How did all this happen to that perfectly non-caring little infant that was just in blissfulness twenty or forty or seventy years ago?

So undoing that requires honest help. It requires sincere help, and it requires somebody that’s willing to actually make you their child, their brother, their mother, their father, whatever. They’re going to look at you that way and say, “I’m going to get you through this and it’s not because I need anything from you other than your happiness from it.” And it’s hard to find that, so if you don’t have that and you’re just wakeful, in other words, you’ve just reached the first stage where you said, “Oh my God, I need to find out how to get out of this corral!” and you don’t have the helper, then that can become incredibly miserable and unfortunately today we don’t have a lot of helpers, a lot of mentors, a lot of helpers in that regard. They know the world well, there’s a lot of intellectually smart people, but the intellect has nothing to do with going beyond the mind’s nonsense, it has nothing to do with going beyond the egoic attachments and the habitual tendencies. Being intellectual, and there have been brilliant people throughout our history who still fell to the ills of the egoic self-clinging. So it has nothing to do with smartness, it has to do with our intention and how we utilize and understand the consciousness toward our desire.

Deliyahu: In addition to that, do you think that if somebody finds themselves in a situation where their surroundings is dictating, for example if someone was born in a poor area where there’s no education and there’s hunger or whatnot, and they see themselves surrounded by this and this is all they know, so they don’t know to even look for that assistance to get out or even know that there is dictating, how would someone in a situation like that get themselves out?

Daishi: You’re saying that what happens if somebody’s in a situation where they may know or they may stir a little bit inside, but they’re not really sure that they have an option. They’re not really sure that there’s anything more than what they see in front of them.

Deliyahu: Right.

Daishi: That is true of every human-being, actually. This is really an interesting question because we say that someone’s not ready for the path until they’ve broken into this desperate wanting of change, saying that something’s got to give. But that is actually active in everybody. It’s just showing it to them a little bit where they become aware that there’s an option, as you said earlier. Once they start to see that there’s another option, there isn’t a human being on earth that doesn’t want to take that at some point. They may not understand it right away. They may be a little premature to it. Maybe that’s too big, too wild, too crazy, but within them that will help stir it faster and give them the ability to start to contemplate that deeply within the deepest recesses of the mind. That will eventually fructify into something beautiful fast.

It’s always important to present the option and not coerce it or force it, no of course not, not on anybody. But to say, “Hey listen, you don’t have to live like this. I mean you can if you want because freedom is the ultimate thing. You do what you want to do and if you’re happy with where you’re at and you don’t and you’re doing okay, I’m not going to bother you at all, of course. But there is an option if you’re not doing okay.” And if you don’t know about that option we have to be in it’s incumbent on us to put it out there and let people know. That’s part of being in the egregore of a group.

That’s part of saying, “Hey, you know I woke up to a lot of things that I was not aware about myself and the world, and had I not had somebody kind of point that out to me a little bit, I would have still been lost suffering and delusion this very day. Because of that it’s my duty to kind of make sure that other people understand there are other options.” You do not have to live like this and most of the problems we create are created out of absolute unconsciousness. They’re created unnecessarily created because of an unconscious nature. This is a very important question, and you’re right, it has to be shown a little bit and it has to be available to those who don’t know that it even exists.

Deliyahu: I know that there are people for example myself when I’ve been in situations, like almost left for dead situations, I’ve been able to come out of it and not consider myself a victim but there’s also people that have been in the same situations and it’s totally the other way around. People that have the same situations and yet one sees themselves out, and the other one does not. So is it the mind that’s playing with you, or is it something to do with the mindset?

Daishi: This is a good question, yeah, you’re asking why one flower grows and buds up bigger than another. It’s a deep question because in this particular moment, in this particular cycle of things it seems that I’m given the same opportunity as this person, and when I see that opportunity somehow I take it upon myself to become greater and better than I was. I want to become more, I want to grow, I want to stop being the animalistic kind of egoic thing and I want to grow from there and I need to take that self-governance on. I have to accept that try to grow into that. I have to aspire for it. I have to intend it, and it’s not easy because it’s not comfortable.

Another person in the exact same position says, “I have no interest in that. I’m just where I am because of circumstances of life, or someone else’s fault, or it’s just you know, I’m not as lucky as you are so-and-so.” But we’ve seen throughout history the worst possible scenarios groomed into the most beautiful epic kinds of flowers. It’s really what happens inside each of those souls that determines how they move forward, and it really is an issue of timing, because we look at each life as equal to every other life, it’s not. We’re all in different positions in different and different locations at different times, and someone might be in this weird strange illusory environment we find ourselves in here on Earth, and suddenly not be really at the place where they’re ready to self-govern and they’re ready to really be responsible for the way they think feel and act.

The way they connect with other people and the way that they connect with the dimensions that are hidden from reality. They may not want any part of that, they might not want to take that on yet, and so the system governs on them very tightly and coerce them in extreme ways. Then there’s the other one who says, ‘Hey you know I want to get out of that. I don’t need to be mothered and fathered anymore. I can govern myself, I just need a little help to understand that.” It’s those people – that’s sort of a rare gem – but it’s those people who say, “I’m ready to make major changes, just tell me how and show me how.” And it’s the ‘tell me and show me how part’ that’s very rare today because of many reasons we don’t need to go into here. It’s very rare to find an authentic way of getting self-governance back.

Deliyahu: Yeah, it’s unfortunate that people in general find themselves in these situations that you’re talking about, and I think it’s a very important topic to discuss further, or even ponder within oneself. When someone does find themselves in a situation like this where they can’t get out but they know that there is a way out, and those that know that there’s a way out but don’t bother to look for the way out, and then there’s people that- like me for example, who finds themselves in the situation and know that there’s a way out and needs to find out how they could do this and start searching for it, how would somebody find the way out of this? What can they do for themselves?

Daishi: How do they seek out? This is a good question. I was going to say that the problem is, if you know you want out and you’ve woken up to the state that you realize you’re being governed, in other words desire is taking control of me and I can see that clearly, or at least to some extent. I understand that I’m not really in control a lot, whether that’s anger, depression, my thoughts. I even made the joke the other day to somebody, “You don’t even really decide when you sleep.” You just lay down and wait for your body to decide and some nights it’ll dictate to you that, “Hey tonight you’re not allowed to sleep.” You’re going to have a bunch of mind stream and energy and you’re going to be awake for five hours.

I was explaining that you know, if you can’t even control when you sleep, you know, and what kinds of thoughts you have, and what kinds of reactionary emotions, and most of the words that you say, there’s a whole bunch going on even way behind that that you’re not aware of. That then really wakes someone up to think, “How much of this that I don’t see is governing over me?” A lot. Now if that person does not get help to help them unveil and reveal the concealed aspects behind them, they’re going to be in a lot of trouble, because from that moment forward they’re awake enough to know enough to be in terrible suffering, because if I don’t have solutions to this and I know it exists I can get into very bad depression. I can get into very bad states of desperation and that has to be cured. And that’s one of the reasons why, in our mission for example, we push so hard to let people know there are ways out.

You don’t have to stay in this state. I hope and my prayer is that this floods everywhere, whether it’s through us or through anyone else, but the world helps itself wake up by learning the ways in which someone comes out of this state. You can’t drive yourself backwards through it. You don’t know where you’re going, you have no idea how to do this, because you’re not sure how you got there. It would be like somebody blindfolding you and dropping you off in the middle of nowhere in a desert and saying, “Come back exactly to where you were before. I have no way of doing that. I have to guess ,and the guesses would be millions of different variations and it would take me lifetimes to try to figure that out.

You have to find somebody who has done it or understands it enough to start helping point in the direction. We don’t have a lot of that. What we have today are people talking about philosophies, talking about self realization, Kundalini Shakti, astral projection, all kinds of nonsense things and they’re not in within themselves nonsense, they’re all important and they they’ve all part and parcel of the path, but without any real practicality, no real step-by-step direction, no real step-by-step thorough understanding of why I’m doing this and where it’s heading me to and why I’m going there. That has to be laid out so that someone can say I want to actually know how I move forward, and not just talk about how I can move forward, but actually do it. Those are two big different things. Most people are talking about it, and we’re doing it.

So the point is we need more doers and there is a lot of people who need it. This world is waking up in a big way in terms of this spiritual frustration we see it everywhere. There are threats of wars all over our world whether we’re talking about Syria, Iran, Russia, China, and Hong Kong at the moment, whether we’re talking about the Amazon, you know, or we’re talking about Brazil or areas down in in Central America. All over the place there’s troubles and problems. In the United States there’s sort of a mini revolution of thought going on and politics has fallen all over the place. It’s just frustration stemming outward from everybody, because really what the question is unknown to people. They’re not really sure what they’re asking. They’re just trying to satiate some kind of burning desire and they can’t find it anywhere so it becomes frustration, despair, and discouragement and all kinds of delusion.

So once we stop looking outside to try to say, “Okay, something ‘out there’ is going to fix ‘in here’” because that’s never worked in the history of man. We should stop doing that it’s not going to help. The pizza, the person, the movie, the theater, or the game, they’re never going to really give us anything. It is not to say we can’t enjoy those things, we can, but we can enjoy them better when we understand the inner side first. If we understand who we are and how we operate consciously, exactly, and that takes a process. I don’t care what anyone says. From the dawn of time every single spiritual system on Earth that existed involved a process to undo and then reveal what you already are. If you think that you’re just going to leap out over that process and not need it by somehow just you know, doing some trick, doesn’t happen.

You’ve got to undo, and this can be fast for some people, but it’s got to be undone, the things that have been done. You have to step back and watch and see where your unconscious and see how your unconscious there, and become conscious to that process. It’s got to happen and you don’t have to be smart as I said earlier, but you just have to have a desire for it. When you reach that space then what happens is that childlike innocence returns, and the conceptualizations and the notions and the judgments and the nonsense of mind fall away, and you see things radiantly clear and shiny again, and from there it’s a matter of deepening and deepening until you realize that even the dreamlike world can disappear if you want it to.

Deliyahu: That was beautiful and very important to understand. Which brings us to the topic of Drukama.com. Drukama.com is now open for registration. Can you speak about a little bit about the Drukama.com?

Daishi: Sure. Our mission is to create teachers. We want to create people who understand the path in their own unique way and they give it to other people. It’s not about one person. It certainly isn’t about me or the other Abbot’s, the other veterans, the other Adepts. It’s not about any one person or any three people. It’s about the whole group. The whole egregore growing together and that system falling downward into exponential growth. So as more people understand it they start to help others under them get it and it starts to morph and become whatever it needs to as it grows, and umbrellas bigger and bigger and bigger to others, and that’s the goal. We want it to expand and grow because it shouldn’t be a system of hierarchy where you have one person sitting on a throne and everyone else saying, “I hope you can somehow spare me a piece of your radiance.”

Everybody has radiance and it should be about each other helping each other find it if they haven’t yet. There shouldn’t be anything other than that. When you say teacher or guru or mentor, this is just really a person that happens to be an inch further than you are – that’s it – and says, “Hey, just step right up here.” And boom, you have this now too, and you go out and do the same thing. Other than that it’s somebody who loves you. That’s what it is. It’s a real loving relationship from somebody for the first time in your life that unconditionally cares about you and wants you to be free. That’s what this Stream condition creates and that’s the system, the methodology and the step-by-step process we’ve created and we offer at our Mission at Drukama.com and we want that to be offered to everybody in the world. We want it to be offered to everybody whether again, it’s through us or anybody else, please step up if you have it, and give it away as much as you can, and that’s what we stand by. So that’s open and it’s available for anyone who’s interested.

Deliyahu: Thank you Daishi. I love listening to you talk and I agree with you. We do need more teachers in this world, and like you said if you don’t have a teacher in front of you, seek one out if you have that ability and the want to move forward, definitely find yourself a good teacher who could assist you on that. Thank you so much again Daishi for joining us today and for our listeners if you have any questions or comments about the show please email us at radio@drukama.com. You can also find us in all the usual places on social media. Just search for Drukama teachings. The transcript for the show is also available under drukama.com. Thanks for joining us for today’s show. We look forward to seeing you next time. Bye bye.