Drukama RadioTM Episode 53 – How We Got Trapped In The Illusory Prison
This week Daishi and Yuvi discuss our illusory imprisonment in this reality and the process towards escape to regain our freedom. What is the purpose of our existence in this world and what do the ancient texts tell us about this? How can fear, pain, and suffering become tools to help propel us on our Path? What is the ultimate goal of the spiritual Path, and how can we get there in the most direct way?
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Episode 53 Extract
How We Got Trapped In The Illusory Prison
“We see people committing suicide… because of the desire to understand themselves and not having the tools. That needs to stop…
There doesn’t need to be this kind of suffering… We don’t educate children about the basics of what they are, who they are, and how to perceive correctly. So they end up having good intellectual skills… but no faculty to be wise… That causes this kind of depression and panic, and suicide rates to climb, and all of this frenzy toward wanting it but not having the ability to understand it, because the tools are missing…”
“We all have the ability to accomplish this… To at least begin the Path… To say, I‘m now going to establish myself heading forward in the right direction…
Everyone should believe within themselves that they have the ability to make this process happen…”
~ Daishi Nagiyah
Full Transcript of This Episode
Yuvi: Hey guys! Drukama Radio is back again. My name is Yuvi and I will be chatting with Daishi today. Welcome back, Sir, it’s good to have you again.
Daishi: It’s great to hear your voice, I hope you’re doing well over there in the European Union and I look forward to talking to you today.
Yuvi: Yes, we’re doing good here, a little rainy but it’s alright. So, today’s topic is, “How we got trapped in the illusion prison.” That sounds pretty ominous.
Daishi: That does sound ominous, that’s a little dark.
Yuvi: Yeah, I mean prison obviously sounds bad, but then again if it’s an illusory prison, then that’s kind of a relief on the other side, so…
Daishi: If there’s any prison I was trapped in, I would hope it would be illusory, that would be the best kind, so I can wake up and walk out of it. I think that’s the point of that, is to understand maybe that what we think we’re trapped in isn’t necessarily the case, but it can feel like that and I agree that it might be a little dark, but it may be true – let’s look at it a little bit.
Yuvi: For example, Carlos Castaneda – he talks about that a little bit, being held prisoner and the Flyers and all that.
Daishi: Yeah, I’m a little bit familiar with that work. Carlos Castaneda was involved with a shaman down in Southern America I believe, South America or Central America.Aand I don’t know the work that well, but I do know the shaman introduced a bunch of ideas to him and he brought them back to the States to share and I think one of those ideas was possibly about a kind of imprisoned environment that humans find themselves in, if I’m not mistaken.
Yuvi: Yeah, exactly. Kind of the same idea of intelligences. You know, how much free will do we have and whether we’re just puppets or we’re actually deciding things here.
Daishi: I think the problem is that it’s pretty self-evident that there’s something going on, because I don’t know how I got here. I’m not sure what the point is, I don’t know how to leave except by direct suicide I guess? And I’m not sure who’s controlling me. Am I in full control? I know there are parts of me that are being predicated by something else within me. So all of those things if you put them together and if you’re rational about them can point to an illusory kind of prison environment, probably at the extreme side, at least it feels that way. It can feel that way.
And those signs are not necessarily that positive or bright when looked at like that, they can be pretty ominous, so the signs point to something that may be dark, but let’s look at it a little more, I think and we’ll try to explore the subject.
Yuvi: Yeah, well if we take on the basic premise that we are trapped, I mean how would we have gotten here? There’s a couple of versions in mystical lore, from all over the world. From the Bible you have the story of Adam and Eve and a fall from paradise. There’s a Gnostic version of that, there’s a Kabbalistic version, you know the ‘shattering of the vessels’. So, can you shed some light on that, how we got into this illusory prison?
Daishi: Well if we look back at the ancient texts, all the way back to the Sumerian texts, into the Torah and so on we can see that they pretty much unanimously agree that there are some controlling entities over us in a subtle realm of reality and they’re responsible for our birth here. We won’t call it enslavement, we’ll just say it’s a birth for now. We can keep talking about as we go, but the idea is that we’re put into these vessels, the human bodies and somehow our Spirit gives us enough intelligence to understand and perceive the environment around us, which our soul seems to then experience through direct awareness. So how is it that this happened? Well it depends where you go, but they all seem to unanimously agree that there’s some nefarious actions happening somewhere in the subtle realms of reality and that it’s not necessarily the soul’s fault, that it may be that there’s some kind of an experience going on that wasn’t at first desired by the so-called Gods or intelligences or angels or so on, or the source intelligence.
Then there’s also a- some kind of misunderstanding or misconception by the soul itself, that got it dropped down into this lower physical dimension. So these are all the ideas that come from the ancient texts. In today’s world it seems we’ve lost all of those connections and sort of discarded them because they’re kind of philosophy. We’re not sure if they hold any weight or not, we can only go by our intuition. In today’s environment – we just sort of have this idea that well, we’re here and we have to deal with what’s in front of us and I liked that approach. I like to know that there are some kind of ideas about the ancient history, of the historical facts of the situation, but I really like the idea that okay, “We’re here, let’s deal with what’s in front of us.” And then, by that we have to look at what is in front of us and we see a world where many other souls are in the same situation, same condition, and we’re on a planet in the middle of nowhere, circulating around a devastatingly large and hot Sun, a star and – what do we do now? So, we know for sure that those facts, at least in our perception, whether they end up being illusory like a dream or not – are real for us now.
And the second point is – what is the point of this? Are we just here to play for a minute, for 60 years, 80 years whatever it is and then move somewhere else? Or do we just go into nothingness? Are we here to accomplish some greater goal? Are we here to grow, learn and educate ourselves? There’s a bunch of different ideas when it comes to how the soul then experiences this reality that are really important to look at.
I think if we take the same ancient texts that we we’re looking at before and we talk about, or go into the purpose of life, they all unanimously agree to one extent or another that our job here is to advance somehow, to grow, to become illumined, to become connected with the Source again, or more connected with the Source. So if we say, “What does that mean?” It means somehow there’s some corrections that happen within the vessel. There’s some changes to perception that have to be made and that involves some kind of spiritual advancement, spiritual work. So we hold on to the regular day-to-day life, but we also see that there’s some things we need to do that allow us to climb back up that ladder and enter into the higher domain that we once embodied or maybe even higher. But if we don’t do that, the ancient sources suggest that we continually come back into this world, time and time again without a conscious awareness or remembrance of what happened prior. That’s something that again, is unanimously agreed upon in most of those ancient mystical texts.
Yuvi: I’ve wondered about that myself too. I mean when I read about something like the shattering of the vessels, then I always think: “Ok…they say that the Light was too powerful for the vessels, but I mean was it all a part of God’s plan or was that like a test run? And the intelligences too, right? You could look at them as a hinderance but you could also look at them as a test, you know, something that you have to overcome with discipline. The last thing that’s holding you back.
Daishi: Absolutely right. Let’s say there’s two obvious options – one is that we’re just here for no reason, we’re organic mud, slapped together around awareness and then when that dies, it goes away and there’s no purpose. So that’s okay, we can look at that and say, “We don’t really have a purpose, we’re here by the chaos of the universe and we’ve come about because of these reasons, there’s really no purpose to life at all.” Fine – atheistic view, nihilistic view, we’re just purposeless. That’s one side, the other side is that there’s actually a purpose and that we’re here to learn and grow. We’re here to understand ourselves, the reality around us and Source, itself, to some extent – at least to the extent that we can.
So those are the two options. Now on the one side – the random chance option, which is just, you know, we happened to be the only place in the universe that has life or potentially has life and it doesn’t mean anything. That’s ok. We can have that view and we can tumble around in that view and see where that takes us. On the other hand – if we agree with all of the texts and the writings of the ancient traditions and mystical cultures throughout history – then we’d have to say, “Well actually they’re saying that there’s a purpose here and we’re missing it.” We’re not aware of it. And that purpose is to somehow become more connected with who we really are. Not the mask of the identity but who we really are underneath that. And then there’s ways of achieving that through looking at our emotions, our thought-stream, looking at our physical bodies and then moving through that to a subtler degree more and more until we actually break through.
For example in the shattering of the vessels analogy you gave earlier, the climbing back up is to bring those shattered vessels, one by one, back into the higher domain of perception. Or into what we would call Realization or Stream entry and that is that perception becomes pristine enough about itself that it becomes self-aware and has direct knowledge of how it functions and because of that it starts to understand and learn things about the nature of reality that it wouldn’t otherwise know. Through this process of growth, we begin to reveal or unveil what’s been concealed from us. And then we begin to understand, we begin to get the answers to the questions of, “Okay – what’s the point? Why are we here? What do we do now?”
Yuvi: Yeah, it makes sense. There’s this practice in Japan, where they take pottery – cups or vases that have been broken and then they fix them with a sort of a glue that has gold in it. So they end up valuing the repaired pieces than the original piece, cause it’s been broken, but it has come back. So being broken is not necessarily a bad thing, right? It’s necessary for evolution.
Daishi: Coming from a Japanese culture, somehow they believe that the broken vessel, as you said, that’s fixed becomes better, stronger and it becomes more fit for the journey and for the task at hand. So – there’s some value in that idea and when we go through this fixing or correcting process, we become stronger, we become more wise, we become more knowledgeable, we become more intelligent, all of these things get glued on to us and we become better equipped to perceive the things that we didn’t perceive earlier. Through that damage we become more knowing and more understanding of what’s really going on and through the spiritual process, through the ability to understand, “How am I functioning? What’s going on here? I know there’s some kind of suffering, there’s desires and there’s lack of fulfillment of those desires. But why?” If I really look at those things I’ll realize that I’ve never fulfilled a desire – ultimately. I’ve only satiated it for a moment and I’ve never actually fulfilled it – it’s always had to come back. That doesn’t make any sense, so there’s a bunch of parts about us that really don’t have any rhyme or reason. So the spiritual path is about coming to a place of illumination that allows us to see through that and to understand why that’s happening and to correct it, more importantly.
So as we do that, we repair the broken pieces, we begin to understand a bigger purpose. Eventually a revelation comes that instills us with the direct knowledge of what the point is here. That’s ultimately the place of Realization, that’s ultimately the goal of any spiritual path – is to get to that place. So, you know, how do we do that? We do that through dreaming practice, because we can get into the unconscious mind in the dreams if we become awakened enough. And what do we do there when we get there? Those are all secretive teachings to this point, which have been held and concealed by mystical teachers throughout the ages. Or we can do meditative practice, where we sit down and deliberately go into places where we’re slowly diving deep into the unconscious. For that to happen in both cases, we have to step one degree closer to the death process. We have to get one degree closer to what happens when we die, because it’s in that death transition where all things are revealed and all things are then scrubbed away again before we come back into the life transition. We want to mimic that and we have a chance to do that either on our own in meditative practice or every night when we sleep.
Yuvi: That makes a lot of sense, because from what I’ve read, the most important transition is when we die, right? In some traditions your soul is weighed on a scale, but that’s just a pretty way of saying: “Are you conscious enough? Do you have to go back or can you move on?” So practising that makes a lot of sense, right.
Daishi: That’s right, most traditions value death as an ultimate liberating factor. They say that death is a place where we can ultimately decide to move on and to attain and to liberate our soul from the bondage of life, death and rebirth, or have to come back into the cycle. Death is the pinpoint by every tradition that is the most important aspect. So we need to mimic that, that’s really what we’re doing.
It’s interesting to me because I see meditative practice today being something that we sit down and calm our mind and stabilize our mind and then we hold that position for a while and then we get up and go away. That’s a foundational practice that builds awareness, it builds will, it allows us to hold single-pointed focus and that’s really important for the next step which is inevitably getting to the death process which is more hidden and secret, concealed kind of teaching, but the idea there is that we’re going to now bring and reduce and relax the nervous system and the mindstream deep enough, while holding awareness in our will, so that we can then go and move one step closer to what happens during this process.
As those indicators and visuals come about, we can use them to say, “Okay, now I’m here at this elemental kind of dissolution and I know where I’m at and I know what I need to do here.” And I can make corrections as I go through this process one step at a time so that not only am I prepared at death. I’m completely prepared for what happens at death and I won’t get caught back unconsciously through fear into the cycle of birth, but I also am able to completely liberate myself because I can move through these stages in a perfected kind of state.
And through that – what’s the point of that? Well obviously beyond becoming liberated from this system that we call a prison, an illusory prison potentially. I also become completely fearless in life and that’s radically important because if I have ultimate courage in life, I don’t mind if I’m dead or not – then I can live in a whole new way. I can live in totally abundant and radical new way. Most of the decisions I make are based on fear so if I eliminate that fear – now life becomes something fantastic where I don’t have to worry about what this person thinks or what that person thinks, what this person does or what person does. Really I don’t have an investment in any of it, so I can say, “Do what you want. I’m free from any of that connection and clinging and craving”. So, desire and fulfillment change, the way I perceive the reality changes, my fears and aversions are removed and now I’m living in a way that’s completely free and I don’t mind that the system calls itself a prison or not because I have the keys.
Yuvi: Yeah, that’s beautiful. So much of the struggle and the strife we experience is just different fears – fear of being judged, fear of not having enough, not surviving. It’s one thing to see through it intellectually, but it’s another thing to actually have that gnosis, that knowing that it’s going to be okay.
Daishi: That’s a big point, so what you just said is one of the most important tenets of the spiritual path, which is to have direct experience. The intellect on it’s own is not strong enough or powerful enough to override the unconscious. So I can say to myself, “A lot of people have said this and I believe it to be true.” Belief is never going to work, we have to actually see it for ourselves, experience it for ourselves and take that experience back into the waking reality. Once that happens then I know – it’s not that I believe. That’s a big difference. I don’t believe anything – I know for sure, I’ve seen it myself, I have direct experience about it and at that point I don’t care anymore about the little hang ups I had. About this person’s opinion and that person’s opinion, about what I have and what I won’t have, what I might have and what I don’t have. Those things fall away and I just say: “You know what, this is a very short, tiny little marker on what is an infinite journey and whatever I go through in this life is absolutely irrelevant. I’m just here to understand through direct experience what I am and what I will be and what I have been. And that’s really what the spiritual path actually is about, it’s about that realization and if we know how to get to that point, then we’ve understood the journey well and we can take it. If we don’t understand, like the way we see meditative processes today where it’s just about relaxing your mind or being more focused for work – this is a tragedy, we’re missing the bigger point. So, that’s the purpose of what we’re doing at our school, is to introduce these next step teachings, the deeper side of this.
How to really get into a death state – whether that’s through your dreaming environment in the lucid dreaming or astral projected experience or how to do it in your seated experience. It’s the same way that Christ went off to sit in the wilderness for 40 days, he went to literally die enough, so that Hashatan came forward and challenged him. “Hey, you should stay here because of these reasons, don’t go anywhere.” And of course in the story as Christ says: “I’m not interested in taking the world, I see bigger than that, I see deeper than that, further than that. I don’t need to take your, or accept your worldview. I accept the infinite view.”
This is true in all mystical traditions including what the Buddha went through with Mara. Mara had challenged the Buddha through all of these kinds of desires and alluring the Buddha toward all these kinds of potential fulfillments, and then attacking the Buddha and scaring the Buddha through fear. The Buddha ultimately touched the earth, because the earth through direct experience and said: “None of this matters to me at all, you are wasting your time.” And beat Mara.
So this is the idea – what we have to do ourselves and it’s exactly why Christ said: “Pick up your cross and do as I do.” He is saying – you need to also go through this, I’m not doing it for you and no one else will. So this is the ultimate point and unless we get that information to the people they’re not going to understand that meditation isn’t just so you have a better job or that you’ve reduced a little bit of suffering and craving – that’s a side effect. Meditation and dream work should be pointed toward understanding what happens in the subtler dimensions of reality and that should be the ultimate goal.
Now of course as I finish this idea, that has to be done only after I strengthen the tools, so I have to enhance the tools of perception of awareness a little bit. Then I can go in and adequately adjust, enhance and explore the subtle dimensions and so the subtle dimensions portion of that whole path is very short and small actually. It can take just a few months to go through that cleansing and correcting. The other side where we enhance the tools can take years and that’s the part that people don’t really understand. So they’re looking for vast experiences and ultimate breakthroughs in the first few years of practice when it really is the last little sliver where they should expect most of that to happen.
Yuvi: It’s also the intermediary process where you’re not really maybe a hundred percent sure that there’s this higher version of yourself or like this potential for illumination. You’re pretty sure but kind of also want to maybe have some pizza instead.
Daishi: There’s nothing wrong with pizza but I agree with you completely, your point is clear. Yes, so that is where you taste it a little bit. You just brush against it and you can sort of say if there’s something bigger there, I haven’t fully embodied it yet. There’s something big there and now I kind of have some confirmation that something’s waiting there but also, I’m of the world. I’m still of the world a little bit, I’m practical. I still want pizza and beer and the you know the movies or the sports event so I go back and forth and that’s okay there’s nothing wrong with enjoying the world and having fun. I mean the point is is that once somebody Realizes, they can enjoy the world the right way. So it’s not based on aversions and attractions, it’s based on what is really happening right now and being fully embedded and embodying that.
All laws and dogmas fall away because what’s happening now is right, so that’s okay. I’m okay with whatever’s happening now because again, why? I don’t have any fears, I’m not worried about breaking laws, I’m not worried about breaking the dogmas that are pressed down on me from someone else. Not worried about any of these things because I know the truth, I’ve experienced it myself and I’m clear about it. So you’re right in the intermediate stage we brush against that truth a little bit and we can see it there and we know, “Okay, it’s there, I just have to press through this somehow.” But you still fall back into the world and think, “Oh man, I must be making mistakes or I’m doing the wrong thing.” The only thing that’s happening is you’re not entirely focused and intended on the path at those times and there’s some worry that comes up about that because you know the time is short.
So if the soul’s saying, “Stop wasting time with pizza and beer it’s never going to help you, get back over here and do this.” And the intelligence is saying, “Have a beer, relax and enjoy the world.” And there’s this battle going on between the body and the soul where the soul say,: “It’s not time to relax yet!” And the body is saying, “We relax all the time, we like to just kind of hang out at the barn and not do any field work.” So this goes back and forth, and that can be the only tragedy of the path because if somebody gets out of this life when they held the keys, we’ve been told that there’s a very low chance that they’re going to have the keys in the next life or next few lives for sure. So if there’s any pressure – that’s the pressure that’s put on a soul that has the keys in front of them in this very lifetime.
Yuvi: Oh no – that’s a little terrifying.
Daishi: Well it’s just meant to be an incentive, but we can say “terrifying” and whatever works to get people to move forward.
Yuvi: Yes. Fear works. Yes, I like that.
Daishi: Some people are driven by fear better than they are by reward. So I heard the old term kicks and hugs. Sometimes hugs work, sometimes kicks work. Whatever gets the job done for the benefit of that particular soul is what’s important and some souls they want to know there’s some pressure and they move forward based on that pressure. Other souls are okay with being coddled. The problem with coddled and held or the pleasure factor is that it can put us to sleep. It’s very dangerous because shaking someone to wake up will certainly wake them up. Rubbing their head and telling them how beautiful they are might put them to sleep further. So there’s some concern about whether there’s too much pleasure added to the path or not, there could be that falling off point where they just become more unconscious and more diluted and that’s the only thing that a good teacher should look out for.
Yuvi: Once you unlock that Samadhi, and just go back to it over and over again, then it’s hard to add that subtle intention of, “Where am I going from here and what am I doing?”
Daishi: It’s hard to understand that we have feelings, intention kinds of energies that we don’t really have a connection with. So once we get into that Samadhi state where we feel…it’s an escape sometimes. The world is terrible, I have fears, aversions and attractions there that drive me to bad states of negativity. Now that I’ve seen all that, I want to come back and settle into a nest and I want to go into Samadhi and I just want to hold that and stay there. It’s sort of a way of putting a blanket around us and saying, “Protect me from everything out there.”
But the truth is – the stuff out there is how we make attainment. So it’s important to take that stuff with us and to bring it into our meditation and understand, Where is this fear and attraction coming up from, so that I can correct that?” And sometimes Samadhi is a wonderful place to begin that journey because it allows the body-brain to relax. It’s not necessarily the journey itself. From that point forward we want to now dive into how do I get to those underlying undercurrents of fulfillment and desire, attraction and aversion, that are causing this disruption in my life and if we get that cleaned away then we have that direct experience.
Yuvi: Yes I see people around me, they’re just very happy with their lives the way things are. Everything is going great, they have everything they need, sometimes there’s little hiccups here and there but nothing major and then you have like most people on the path. I feel like they’re really pushed to the path through pain and suffering, something is wrong to a large enough extent that you have to fix it. You don’t have any other choice.
Daishi: This is a really profound thing because most people come to the path as I’ve seen personally over the last more than a decade, is that people come to the path from pains. Because you have kind of two sets of people; one that’s fine and they think that everything is okay because it’s just stable. So hey, don’t rock the boat, everything’s good here. I don’t want to move left, I don’t want to move right, I don’t want to grow, I don’t want to descend. I just want to have stasis and they cling to that. So they’re smiling going: “Hey, nothing bad is happening that’s good.” That’s not necessarily good, that’s just good because there’s no movement and you find stasis as a place of rest. That’s not advancement.
For a spiritual practitioner the opposite is true. Everything is shaking and rattling, there’s never any kind of stability and the reason for this is because that particular soul is being pushed toward this path. It’s time for that soul. For the other soul it’s not. It’s time for incubation. For the Soul on the path it’s time to move now. And we’re seeing suicide rates go up by more than double over the last ten years or so because more people are being pushed toward this path. They don’t understand it so they end up taking their own lives and that’s why our mission is to get the teachings out to everybody and anybody who can accept them or who wants them, because it will allow them to see that maybe this isn’t all me, maybe this isn’t a bad thing, maybe this isn’t negative at all. Maybe this actual negativity I see is actually pushing me toward positivity, toward growth and expansion and better things, and that’s actually the case.
So again – we’re seeing bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. What it is, it’s something that we see as negative is actually really positive in the long run. We just don’t have the 30,000 foot view to see that yet and so we label and judge these things without having any wisdom behind it. So as we get out of this film from one frame to another view, the short view, the little view and we rise above it and see the whole movie, we say: “Oh no, actually this turns out to be a good thing. From this little three frames it looks terrible but if you look at the whole movie this is actually a great thing that had to happen.” So that’s what the wisdom of Realization provides, it provides that 30,000 foot view where we can say all of these “negative things” are actually very very positive and important.
And so when we’re spurred on to move, “Oh I don’t know where I’m gonna live, or how I’m going to make money, or what I’m going to do, and my girlfriend or boyfriend or dad or mom or sister, brother, my coworker or my boss.” All of these things come and hound us. That’s the system saying, “Stop looking here. These things are not going to help you and I’m going to insist and consistently show you that they’re not going to help you, so that that pushes you towards some breakthrough.” And then you look back and say, “Thank God they hounded me and bothered me, otherwise I would have stayed in stasis and fallen asleep forever.”
Yuvi: Yeah I definitely went through that. I just want to add a little caveat that it’s a good thing when you have somewhere to get some help or someone who has that large view that can help you. If you don’t have that and you’re just going through the struggles of life, you might not have the tools to really understand, “What am I supposed to do here?”
Daishi: Yes, I agree, you’re right. If someone doesn’t have that help then it can be a very miserable and scary and overwhelming situation and that’s what we want to try to avoid, because there are a lot of people now in today’s world as we go into this new kind of perception that are going through this struggle more than ever.
There wasn’t this much spiritual drive in the early 1900’s, the 1800s. There was an Enlightenment period that happened in segments of Europe, in the Middle East but it really wasn’t like it is today. Now we see people literally committing suicide left and right because of the desire to understand themselves and not having the tools. That needs to stop. So the idea is we need to get the principle tools out to as many people as possible to help avoid this. There doesn’t need to be this kind of suffering, it’s just that we don’t educate children about the basics of what they are, who they are, and how to perceive correctly. So they end up having good intellectual skills, they can remember a lot, but no faculty to be wise and that causes this kind of depression and panic and suicide rates to climb and all of this frenzy toward wanting it, but not having the ability to understand it, because the tools are missing from it.
Yuvi: Exactly. I was incredibly fortunate. Thankfully you and this whole team of people at Drukama have been working hard and there’s a new curriculum out now. Is there anything new with the website you want to talk about?
Daishi: There’s a whole bunch going on. We’re in a phase now of growth and expansion. So we’re adding a live lecture that’s going on every week or two. Kind of like a Sunday Mass and openly presenting it to the world for anyone who wants to come and listen and we’re going to continue to do that. Continue to upgrade and enhance and fill up our library for the curriculum side so you can either use the dreaming aspect if you don’t have time for meditation, or the meditation aspect if you don’t like to use your sleep practice.
To really go in and learn how to systematically and methodically walk through this process one step at a time, whether you have no idea what mysticism is and you’re a beginner to the path, or you’re an advanced or expert practitioner who just wants to know some of the keys they’ve been missing. The curriculum gives you that including the supporting teachings that tie in with it. So we’re trying to provide these things to the world. We’re trying to give the world as much of these tools as possible and hopefully other people break out with them and continue to share them and give them to the world as well. We don’t mind that at all, we just want people to have an option that they don’t necessarily have right now. And doing Hatha yoga or Ashtanga or doing some kind of Vipassana meditation for example or Samatha meditation, those are all beautiful things but those are the tools that lead up into the ultimate path which is to understand how to die correctly. If we can get through that process, we can learn ahead of time and prepare for one of the biggest events we ever experience which is going to happen to every person – death. So if we’re not prepared for it, we don’t want to just say,”Well here I go, I hope I do well. I have no idea what I’m going to do here, but I hope I can get through it!” That’s a terrible way to go after or into the most important transition that the soul will ever experience.
So we want to prepare for that and as we prepare for it, we also have side effects like self realization and correction and understanding the reality and the structure of creation and so on. Those things happen as a side effect. Of course you will be more focused, of course you’ll be more compassionate, of course you’ll be more connected, of course you’ll activate the inner energies within you, of course you’ll do all of these things as a side effect of aiming toward that ultimate goal of understanding the thing that’s coming up quickly, which is the death process and how to move through it correctly which is of paramount importance. So at the site we teach that.
Whether it’s locally in our local community here or at the website itself we teach those aspects and until today they’ve been pretty hidden and guarded, very hard to find, very cryptic. Some of the old mystical texts talk about them but in a way that’s not understandable from a initiates perspective. They need help to understand, “What does this mean? How do I do this? Is this practical? How do I apply it if it is?” and so on. So we provide those things to the practitioner, the seeker so that we can get them through that process as fast as possible.
Yuvi: Yes, that’s amazing. Those are some pretty good side effects too.
Daishi: Yes they are. The problem with the path in general, as we finish here, is this that people have to realize that it’s that initial foundation where all corrections are made where we’re learning about ourselves, where we’re learning about the egoic mind stream and the aggregates and so on. That part can be tough because we’re just looking at and becoming aware of all the egoic problems in our process and so that’s really the most important part. Once we establish those tools and become an Adept practitioner where we’re good at this now, we understand, “I know what the awareness is and I know what the rest of the body-brain vehicle is and I’ve made space there and I know how to utilize my intention energies.”
Then we dive right into the last part of the path which is the second stage and we finish that up very quickly. That’s where all of the attainments come and all of the Realization happens. Prior to that, like you said earlier, there’s just hints of it, there’s just sort of like I’ve brushed against this, maybe entered Stream at a low degree or a samadhi here or I built my Tummo and my Shakti or my Kundalini up to a certain point but I haven’t really broken through and established a floor, a platform where I now stand on. I’ve just broken through the ceiling a little and I’ve come back down. So you’re kind of peeking in there and so that’s the first part. The second part is breaking through and establishing that platform permanently and that’s where the much shorter, easier part of the path is, in truth.
Yuvi: It’s like being in prison but getting an increase to your cigarette allowance. Being allowed more outside time.
Daishi: Didn’t think of it like that, it’s a good analogy. Yes, it’s a sort of like being in prison and you’re getting out of solitary confinement more to play basketball or be on the yard.
Yuvi: Yes a little bit. You’re not out completely but there’s hope.
Daishi: Agree. Yes I agree. That’s why you need a group right? I mean you’ve got to be around people or someone else that’s associated with the path. They can help you when you go through those terrible corrections or those times of doubt. One of the biggest factors is doubting and there are thousands of mystics throughout several thousands of years that have come to the exact same conclusions in their own generations about the path.
So as we look at all the spiritual writings, spiritual traditions, the spiritual sages, seers and saints throughout history… We can see that they all agreed and so either you believe that there’s one huge conspiracy over five thousand years where everybody from different parts of the world just agreed to carry on this fallacy or some deception or they’re all just telling the truth. Doubt should never creep into the path. You can say that I don’t know if I’ll get there but the teachings and the path itself are well established in our history, are well talked about throughout history, and well documented by many thousands of sages, seers and saints. So we know that something like this exists, we understand the purpose of it and we know that there is a truth to it because it’s been qualified by so many people.
The issue is whether one can do it or not and that should never really even come up itself. We all have the ability to accomplish this process. Every human being. Regardless of where they are or what they happen to think about themselves, everybody has the ability to at least begin the path and begin to implant good future karmic seeds for themselves. If nothing at all, that’s a huge benefit to say, “I’m now going to establish myself heading forward in the right direction.” But everyone should believe within themselves that they have the ability to make this process happen and not have doubt because doubt is a killer, especially when there’s no real factual evidence that you couldn’t do it, other than speculation. That’s no way to think and that can be a killer and people don’t see that coming, but that’s the only other aspect that’s really dangerous on the path.
Yuvi: Yeah. So thanks a lot Daishi for taking time to do this out of your pretty hectic schedule.
Daishi: You’re more than welcome. Thanks for being here I really appreciate it. I had a great time and I appreciate what you’re doing for the school and for people who are listening to this and happen to get some hope and some good direction out of it. So thank you very much.
Yuvi: All right. If you have any questions or comments about the show, please email us at email@example.com. You can also find us in all the usual places on social media. Just search for Drukama Teachings. D-R-U-K-A-M-A. The transcript for the show is also available on Drukama.com
Thanks for listening, everyone and we’ll talk again soon. Bye bye.