Drukama RadioTM Episode 22 – The Secret Fire – Kundalini
Today Daishi speaks with Peter on the subject of the Secret Fire. Known in different traditions as Shakti, Tummo, Kundalini, and Chandali, what exactly is this fire and why is it important? How can a practitioner begin to work with this inner energy to aid their spiritual development?
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Episode 22 Extract
Secret Fire – Kundalini
“…within each person lies this dormant energy. It just has to be engaged, amplified and cultivated in a certain way. Everybody has it, it’s just a matter of, do you want to access it or not. Some human beings are not ready to access it. They’d rather be in the world and play in the world. And sort of go through the experiences in the world that they need to burn out first, before moving on. And that truly is what this energy is about — moving on.
It’s about evolving beyond the normal human capacity. When the world becomes explored, it’s sort of “I’ve done everything here, I get it that I’m not going to find satisfaction here.” I understand that intrinsically through my direct experience, then what’s next?
This fire or this heat as it’s called — and heat relates more with bliss than with actual temperature — is the way that we manifest the blissful connection that we need in order to let this human vessel stop desiring externally. And so, in that regard, anybody can do it. Anybody can learn it, anybody can achieve it.”
~ Daishi Nagiyah
Drukama™ podcast extract – EP22
Full Transcript of This Episode
Peter: Hi everyone and welcome to Drukama Radio. My name is Peter and I am your co-host today. We are very honored and grateful to have Daishi with us today. How are you Daishi?
Daishi: I am doing fantastic, thanks for having me. I look forward to discussing this interesting topic with you in all of the next 20 minutes or so. Ready to jump in when you are.
Peter: Alright, lets dive right in. It is literally going to be a hot topic today, we are going to talk about the Secret Fire.
Can you tell us what is this Secret Fire, what do we burn with it, and why?
Daishi: So, huge question just to start with: What is Secret fire? What is this mysterious kind of inner heat, or this inner bliss, or this inner electric/magnetic/some kind of life force that travels throughout our body, it sort of potentially lies dormant at the base of our spine, it is referred to as Kundalini, Prana Shakti, Adi Shakti, it is called Chandali in the Tibetan tradition, or Tummo, the Fierce Woman, all sorts of names for it. And it is the spiritual force or some type of evolutionary energy that resides within us that allows us to reach higher states of consciousness, as we are told.
So, we are looking to amplify, activate, awaken and utilize this Secret Fire, Inner Fire, Inner Heat or this Shakti Kundalini energy in order to allow us to reach states that kind of brighten or infuse this vessel, as you will, with more light, more consciousness, more awareness, more clarity, more joy, more connection, more compassion, more blissfulness, etc. So, this Secret Fire, this Inner Fire, is one of the greatest mysteries in all traditions, in all religions, mystically back into the dawn of man.
Peter: Can you tell us why is it secret?
Daishi: I do not think it is secret, I think they consider it secret because it is so mysterious. Some people seem to have this revelation of Shakti or Kundalini or Tummo, this evolutionary energy comes to them through grace, just arbitrarily, every once in a while we hear people having this epiphany, revelatory kind of experiences and we do not really understand where that came from, how did that happen. So we know people like Beethoven and the geniuses of the past have had these kinds of revolutionary experiences and it has brought out from them some intense and amazing life changes, and the way that they perceive the world, and the way that they express themselves, and the way that they connect to others.
So, in that regard, it is the mystery that, you know, caused Christ’s disciples to speak in tongues and babble, and sort of known to be the Secret Wine, or as Christ said they are “drunk on his Wine”, right, so this tradition goes way back, and we in our teachings, we rely on this Secret Fire as a way of kind of cultivating an inner blissfulness, an inner joyfulness, an inner aliveness that you do not see in some traditions that work on mind only, or just want the mind to be kind of stable and present.
So, this secret is not really so much of a secret, it is just, I think, more mysterious; as a general world, it is they are ready for us, but we just do not know enough about it, and it is just recently over the last few decades I think, over probably 40 years, that it has become more and more and more talked about, known about, researched and understood, and people have actually sought it out, and because you are seeking something, it is sort of a mystery right? It is sort of a secret. But in truth it is not too much of a secret once you understand it.
Peter: How do we learn to generate it? What are the steps to follow there and can anyone learn it?
Daishi: The beauty of it is that it is within every human being. So every human being has this, as we are told through the old scriptures, the spiritual scriptures, the mystical scriptures, the sutras, the tantras, etc. That within each person lies this dormant energy, it just has to be engaged and amplified and cultivated in a certain way, so everybody has it, it is just a matter of do you want to access it or not. And some human beings are not ready to access it, they would rather be in the world and play in the world, and sort of go through the experiences in the world that they need to burn out first before moving on, and that really this energy is about moving on, it is about evolving beyond the normal human capacity, when the world becomes explored, you sort of “I have done everything here, I get it that I am not going to find satisfaction here, I understand that intrinsically through my direct experience”, then what is next? And this fire, or this heat, as it is called, and heat relates more with bliss than it does with actual temperature, is the way that we manifest the blissful connection that we need in order to let this human vessel stop desiring externally.
And, so, in that regard, anybody can do it, anybody can learn it, anybody can achieve it; now, the second part of your question is how do you do it? That is a little more mysterious. So, most of the time, if you have not received this inner transformation and there is a process to it if you have not received it through grace as I described earlier, then you need help with it. You need a guide or a teacher to actually show you how to access it and actually help you access it, so there is a kind of a connection with the teacher and the student, in that the teacher can help cultivate and slowly activate with you this energy together through a series of practices and a series of discussions, and meetings, and silent transmissions and empowerments and so on; there is a myriad ways of trying to cultivate this energy, but usually it happens that way through a variety of different methods, and once applied correctly and in the right order, this energy becomes more alive and more active within you, and allows you to slowly and gradually increase it so that you can utilize it for many other kinds of applications later that allow you to get deeply into the esoteric path, as you will.
Peter: I think you mention mindfulness practices before, where does this Secret Fire energy work fit in relation to Vipassana mindfulness meditation, what role does it play there?
Daishi: So there are two areas there, and it is really interesting to note that there are two sides to the spiritual path. One is this side that allows us to make distance from this transient identity and to understand what parts of us are the vehicle-brain, you know, the body-mind, and what parts of us are the cognition or what we call the ordinary awareness; and all of the things that are happening in that body-mind that are the reactions and the mental iterations, and undulations of the brain, the daydreams and the fantasies and projections and the remembrances, so on and so forth. And the physicality of it all, the vessel that holds that brain; and then the separation of the awareness watching it all happen and not to be entangled in that is sort of the mind process.
We are sort of bringing a balance and stability and control over the wild horses of the mind that typically lead us into karmic consequences, or just cause and effect in life that creates suffering, you know, sort of like “I think I want cake”, so I chase cake and eat it, then I get stuffed and want to throw up and I do not want cake anymore, so we end that ignorance of chasing once the mind starts to stabilize a little bit.
On the other end, what takes that place? Right, so once I stabilize the mind and I become drier, because in the mind side it is dry, I sort of backed away from the craziness, the rhythms of the mind, and the emotions and the undulations of the emotions, etc, so I kind of backed away and created a stability, but there is still a desire.
So, what fulfills that desire to connect and to feel good and blissful and loving and compassionate and all that? That is where the energy comes in, so the energy satiates the vehicle’s need to amplify illumination and to feel satisfied, satiated, inside of that light or that Secret Fire, and it gives great bliss, and it gives great liveliness, and it gives great brightness and clarity, diamond-like radiant awareness, to the already balanced mind.
So both of these sides need to go together, one without the other can create depression and apathy and disconnection and all sorts of things, so we have to fulfill the desire of being a human vessel, we are always going to desire, that is our nature, we want something, even if we want to not want, it is still wanting. We are like a flower, we are going to grow, just what direction we grow is going to be dependent on our environment.
So we are wanting things, we just have to learn to stabilize the want and direct it towards something that is really purposely positive for evolution and this Secret Fire provides us that blissful givingness, the bestowing factor within us, that allows us to say – “All of the things outside of us are no longer necessary to fulfill me. The light within myself fulfills me constantly and I no longer need to seek” – it does not mean I do not seek, I can seek, I can play, I can be creative, I can love, but now I do it from a position of not needing it, instead just wanting it.
So it changes perspective and perception in a huge way, and this is where we reach that state of Self-Realization in truth, I no longer am greedy, envious, jealous of anything because I am satisfied completely within, and I balance and stabilize my mindstream so that I can see clearly, perceive clearly, and love clearly, and that is very important. So both of these parts need to be within any real spiritual path.
Peter: That is beautiful.
A question that might come to some people’s mind is: Can it be dangerous somehow? Do we need to be careful when practicing it or is it a totally organic process?
Daishi: I have my own bias, and for decades here I have sort of said to everyone who has come to me with the fear of Shakti or Kundalini or Tummo or whatever the inner energy, and said “Boy, you know, could be really negative and harmful”; psychosomatically there is a way to abuse the energy, yes, you could get it so that it is running in a way that is not healthy, you can get overwhelmed by it, yes, I mean, if you are trying to practice these things without the help of a guide or somebody who understands it, there is a small chance that the experience could be way overwhelming in the same way that if a smaller child learns about adult things too quickly they might not be able to process them. It does not mean that the things they are learning are wrong, it just means that they are just not ready for it yet.
So, in that regard, we could perceive that the child gained access to things that were not healthy, but if we believe that the All is the All, then whatever we are receiving has to be right when we receive it, right? So it just really comes down to a philosophical debate.
I like to say that with the right understanding, the right knowledge, the right wisdom behind it, there really is no chance for having any negative effects, or at least long term negative effects at all. If somebody just starts to haphazardly mess around with their inner energies, there are ways that you can stagnate your prana, you can become congested and have issues physiologically that can bother you, whether those are long term or not remains to be seen, but they certainly can be short term, and that is the reason we really need to have help when we look into these more advanced mystical practices, you really need to understand them well.
Peter: Yeah, that definitely sounds like you need a teacher on the way there, or it is at least very beneficial.
Daishi: Absolutely important to have somebody to guide you that has been there and understands it very well, otherwise trying to guess through this not only could be a waste of time, we do not have that long here on Earth, you know, why are we here, we here just to have fun? We could have stayed where we were before we got here if that was the only point, right? So, you know, we are here to learn and evolve, and sort of understand ourselves and the nature of each other and connect with each other better, understand the purpose of reality in a very short time, I mean, we think that the life can seem very long, unless you are having a lot of fun, then it is very short, but if you really look at the grand scheme of things, you are here in just a flash, so that flash that you come down and you spend here is really meant for us to grow and to just experience and learn and understand. And if we come to just have pizza, watch football and enjoy and then we leave, it is such a waste of an opportunity to gain so much understanding about our inner nature and who we really are that it seems to be a shame, but for some people that is necessary to cycle around that for a while until they finally realize that this is not really working out too well. And it leads them inevitably, like everybody else, to the evolutionary path that they have to take and decide to make change.
Peter: Yeah, ‘Know Thyself’ is a quote that I really like. As long as you are here, it is really worth getting to know yourself better and see what is going on in your life and around you, especially within you.
Daishi: I think that is about as wise words that have ever been spoken right, so if we understand how we operate then we can definitely understand, you know, what is wrong or what is ailing us, or what is, you know, these deficiencies we perceive we have and all these things. So we have to understand this thing we are riding around in and that should be at the forefront of our experience, not only how am I here but what is this? What am I? Some deep questions that people normally do not want to touch because they feel like there are no answers to them; there are answers to them, there are ways to understand how the energy, the vials of the body, the way that the energies of the body are moving and how we can kind of control them to perceive not only in a sharper way, but more importantly, to connect and to be able to be happy and joyful, and really just love each other and have compassion toward each other, and understand that there are different levels of human beings, and that we should help each other completely and endlessly without partiality or bias, that we should say every human being is just a human being and they are all going through different levels of growth, there should be no one we do not help or do not try to assist.
So this knowing allows us to overcome our own lack or what we believe is our own lack, and then begin to help everybody else around us and say “Hey do not worry about me, I am fine, you have issues, lets deal with them and lets help you get fine too”. That is paramount for our world.
Going back to the Secret Fire, lets say the practitioner has established a certain amount of heat or warmth inside the lower cauldron, how can he develop it, are there degrees to it, are there depths to it, what can one do from that point on?
Daishi: Yeah so you jumped from basic talking to pretty intermediate talking here real quickly so, lets define a couple things. So the warmth inside can depend on which channel is operating at the time right, so we have a middle channel, a left channel and a right channel for lack of technical terms, one is a solar channel, it is a heating channel, one is a lunar channel, it is an inward channel, it is a parasympathetic and sympathetic axis of the body, and then we have a balance of the two which is the inner channel, and that is where we are aiming for, we are trying to hit a balance so that we can bring this electric-magnetic universal life force, life giving energy, within that channel, so that we can begin to hit indicators and open up constrictions, restrictions, whatever you want to call them, within the vessel so that they begin to open and we begin to release the kind of tightness tension fear anxieties that they create so we begin to open up and we begin to become free, courageous, we begin to become loving, we begin to become knowledgeable and communicate and connect.
So, that inner fire is the beginning point of letting all of that kind of burn and translate up. Translate spiritually – fire is the only element that translates something, if I want a block of wood to become air, quite literally I put it on fire and it transforms right in front of my eyes, it goes from a dense heavy block of wood to literally what I believe is just air, it is a space. I mean now, granted there are molecular breakups there, there are some bonds breaking up, and they are becoming, you know, specialized out into the ephemeral kind of space in the macrocosm, so my eyes cannot see them and we know scientifically they are just the chemical bonds breaking, but fire is the only thing that can do that, right, I mean, fire in the terms of a special chemical reaction that way. Does that make sense?
Peter: That makes total sense.
Can this kind of energy work get me all the way to “Enlightenment/Realization”?
Daishi: There is not another way to do it. The only way you can really marry wisdom and compassion, which are the two parts of the path, together, is by utilizing both of them through this process.
I have to have the vehicle renewed, and without getting too esoteric here, lets pretend for a second that we all agree that we have reincarnation. Lets say that we come back and cycle back into new bodies here in the world, just for the sake of argument, does not mean you have to believe that or not, but lets just say that we acquire more knowledge as we come back and back and back to this world. When we die, we leave the cognitive awareness or whatever we call the ordinary awareness, leaves this vehicle, this body, this body-brain, as it goes away we go up into an etheric non-localized space, we cannot stay there.
We have to occupy another vehicle, another vessel, we have to enter into in order to explore a localized space. So that localized space is a body, so we go from that space of death, going to kind of a higher plane, and needing to get back into a localized body in order to experience with intelligence and understand the world around us through the senses and so forth. So we keep doing that, we jump out of this body, get into another one, jump out of this body. So inevitably the idea is, in order to be born again, in a very esoteric way, we have to have a body in the higher realms that we can occupy so that we do not have to keep coming back to a physical body. That is the process.
So, inevitably, this idea is to burn away the connections to this old body and generate a new body by which we go and occupy so that we do not have to continue through this cycle here in this reality. And that is what the mystics of old tell us, and so in order to do that we cannot just become present and mindful, it is not enough, we also have to satiate the desiring side, and there is that need, so, wisdom and compassion are the two of them, one is to get the mind in the right space, that is so important, to be present, to be able to see your mind, emotion, body reactions and all of that, there are very specific ways to do that quickly. And to also utilize all of the inner energy of the body, which is organic and natural, it sounds complex, it is not, it is very organic and natural but there is a process to that as well, so that they can come together, those two parts, and form a new body that we go and occupy once we leave this place if we are ready for that.
So, without going too far into the esoteric side, I think that explains it just enough so that we can leave the curiosity to kill the cat later.
Peter: Sounds great. I understand that for people who are interested to diving into this topic more, they will find information about it in the upcoming Drukama website. Any news on the launch date?
Daishi: We are going to launch the first week of July, so it is Drukama.com D-R-U-K-A-M-A.com; and that website is already filled with tutors and teachers there that have been with me for a while, it is going to be a place where you can go from the comfort of your own home and go week by week as we walk you through the process and the practices to help you understand not only the long term, you know, what am I doing long term, to break that down for you so you can understand it, but then show you how to do this week by week at your own pace and at your own level, and have the support system that can help you also by answering questions, because many of the people that are there have gone through this already, so, they are there to help you if you are interested in it.
And as I always say, if you do not find it with us, find it somewhere, please, because understanding yourself as you said earlier, “Know Thyself”, is an important axiom we must embrace for the sake of becoming a closer human society, and we are not going to solve things out there, we are not going to ever change others, we are not going to change situations, unless we change ourselves first. And that change within means I have to become impartial and unbiased to all of the environmentally created circumstances that were out of my control to begin with, that shaped and formed who I believe I am, and it turns out who I am not at all. So, these are important steps for humanity, we have to do this, we have to see this through, and just enough of us doing this will create such a change, such an egregorial change, that will help the rest of the people who might not be ready for this just yet, and suddenly turn them into people who are ready for it now.
Peter: Brilliant. Thank you so much for joining us today Daishi, we very much appreciate your time and energy.
Daishi: You are so welcome and thank you for doing this, I look forward to having another one of these with you as soon as possible.
Peter: If you have any questions or comments about the show, people send us an email at email@example.com. Thanks for joining us for today’s show, we look forward to seeing you next time.