What is Realization or Self Realization? – Drukama RadioTM Episode 15
Today Daishi speaks to Jimmy on the subject of realization or self realization. They discuss the nature of realization and how it can be attained. They also discuss the importance of having a realized teacher as a guide on the spiritual path.
Episode 15 Extract
What is Self Realization?
“Realization is the occurrence that the illusory identity is not us. That’s the realizing factor – the moment that we realize, not intellectually, but completely realize through the depth of our unconscious mind that all of the faculties that make up the self are not inherently permanent. They don’t exist and we can consider them illusory; they are sort of a symphony of instruments creating one thing moment by moment. When someone has the recognition of those instruments, as being illusory and as not being the self in a way that they saw it, the way that they were influenced by
it societally and culturally, that is the realizing factor.”
~ Daishi Nagiyah
Drukama™ podcast extract – EP18
Full Transcript of this Episode
Jimmy: Hi everyone and welcome to Drukama Radio™. I’m your co-host today, Jimmy. We’re very grateful to have Daishi with us today – how are you today Daishi?
Daishi: Doing great and I’m happy you’re with us, I’m excited for you to be on the show with us and I’m looking forward to our topic – let’s dive in.
Jimmy: Right on! Well ok – today we are talking about Realization (Self Realization).
For our audience here today, could you just briefly describe what we are talking about when we use the word Realization?
Daishi: In its purest form, I think Realization is the occurence, that the illusory identity is not us. That’s the realizing factor. The moment that we realize – and again, not intellectually, but completely realize through the depth of our unconscious mind – that all the faculties that make up the self are not inherently permanent. They don’t exist and we can consider them illusory. They’re sort of a symphony of instruments, creating one thing moment by moment.
When someone has the recognition of those instruments as being illusory and as not being the self, in the way that they saw it, the way they we’re influenced by it societally and culturally – that is that realizing factor. Why is it so profound? Because when we work through the Path deep enough, the unhinging or unlocking of that entanglement immediately, and when it’s sealed, permanently relieves us from any suffering and dissatisfaction caused by that illusory identity.
Jimmy: Would it be fair to say that this is a state of awareness or is it an altered state of consciousness? How could somebody off the street wrap their mind around this idea of (Self) Realization?
Daishi: That’s a great question. How do you wrap your mind around it? And talking about is the trouble. Because we use a certain set of binary or dualistic processing to perceive reality. So we either say it’s hot or cold. It can’t be anything other than those two things. It has to be either a graduation of warming to hot or a graduation of cooling to cold, based on the way that we perceive reality. There’s an up, there’s a down, there’s a left, there’s a right. There is always, from our brain’s position in the way it functions through its intellectual process, a dual perspective. It cannot be one or the other.
But when we transcend and we unhinge, or untangle from the illusory identity that uses those mental aggregates to form the self, the egoic self – there seems to be some kind of a unification of the hemispheres that blurs the line between the binary “one” or “zero” or dualistic way of perceiving things. And because of that, perception is radically altered. And, you know, its altered in a way that we let go or forego completely and again, all the way through the unconscious, which is a really deep process.
But we let go and forego our inherent noise or the buzzing process that’s going on underneath the surface of our day-to-day ordinary reality. And when we let go of that it seems that the awareness becomes majestically pristine and clear and radiant. And it becomes monumentally aware and the cognition skyrockets and you’re able to perceive things and see things that you weren’t able to perceive before. It’s not that you weren’t perceiving them, it’s just that you’re perceiving them now clearly and with full awareness and the change between those two states and the reason why Nirvana or Enlightenment or Self Realization is such a huge accomplishment on the Path is because that change is radical and it’s so radical that millions of pages of texts have been… you know, ink has been spilled all over them trying to explain and explore this subject over anything else in the history of man.
This has been the thing, this evolutionary process has been the thing. Are you enlightened or not? Have you hit Nirvana or not? Have you entered Stream or not? And it always, in the mystical tradition, seems to be the pinpoint pinnacle of where the Path begins…or ends, depending on how you are looking at the aspect of it. If you’re just trying to eliminate suffering and dissatisfaction then this is the end of that, because the illusory self can no longer entangle you in it. But if you’re looking to begin to explore life in a whole new way, this is the beginning! So, it just depends on what side of the table you are sitting at that time.
Jimmy: Just for clarity – different traditions used different wording as you mentioned… Enlightenment, Nirvana. Here we’re using Realization. Are these all the same thing? Are there distinctions between the terms that are being used.
Daishi: That’s a great point actually, because are these all different levels of the same thing or are they different areas? Does one tradition take you to a different place than another? Actually every mystical tradition that has become a religion in the dark ages here, as our Kali Yuga ages, it gets dumbed down into a kind of just a basic religious understanding but before that, before religions, it was a mystical process that was unique to each individual where they would know a universal process through the teacher of letting go of that egoic identity, releasing themselves from it and then accomplishing this pure awareness so they could go on and begin to understand the other parts of reality. They could understand their own life’s purpose, their own deeply knowledgeable concepts of why they are here, how nature functions, the different levels of nature: mineral, vegetative, animal, human (and then beyond) and what the evolutionary process is about, why it’s important.
All of these questions begin to get answered once we eliminate the noisiness of that egoic identity. So this had to be the first part of that process way back, and I don’t mean 2000 years ago, I mean way, way back. There was just one process and it began, as we moved into a darker age, we moved into a more ignorant age, less connection between each other, less connection to nature, less connection to our world, our planet and the planet as being alive just like nature’s alive, just like animals are alive, all sentient beings that surround us, just like the Universe is alive.
We cut all that off in the dark age and it became mostly about me, right? We sort of became tighter around what’s important to me and we lost our connection to each other and this is why we had to come up with doctrine like: “Love thy brother as thyself”. I mean, you don’t teach this to a stream-winner, a stream-winner already loves his brother like himself, because he sees the inherent connection – if the brother’s not happy, or the sister’s not happy (and I use that term meaning just another human being) then they can’t be happy, because there’s an obvious connection between the stream-winner, the realized person and the other person.
So if the other person is hurt or not in a great state, there’s something wrong, the drive is to help that person figure out what’s wrong, there’s an empirical need to have them feeling better, so it’s not a coercive thing where I need to, you know, you have to teach me to help other people. No, it’s just that I honestly want the other person to be happy and I want them to be joyful and I want them to experience life in a grand way, a happy way and a connected way. I don’t want them to be lonely or hurt.
So, that went away and because that went away we needed religions to start teaching us right and wrong. But the stream winner doesn’t need right or wrong, they operate from a higher wisdom, only because the insulation between the two people, between me and the other is removed, so there’s clarity there. Because the insulation limits the amount of Light the vessel, the mind-body can receive inherently. It’s like a dimmer – as soon as the insulation is gone it turns up naturally. So it’s not like the awareness gets stronger or any of that happens. It’s just that the Light is more able to shine and connect and be more cognitively aware, whereas the insulating factor prior to that caused a dimming or some kind of a limit to that awareness.
So every tradition is looking to eliminate that entanglement, period. So in that regard self realization, Nirvana, enlightenment, higher mind Jiva-Atman, the Atman, Christ consciousness – all of these things are that state and just to end the idea there and I’ll let you continue, but – after that state occurs, there’s a sealing of that state, meaning that there is a bouncing around. You can go into Stream or Realized state and bounce back into ordinary awareness and then jump back into what I call extraordinary awareness and you can kind of go back and forth a little bit as you’re adjusting and removing the final impurities of the habit energy mind. Until it’s sealed and it’s sealed shut, means there’s no more work, it’s done. I’ve eradicated my connection to the self altogether and I’m fully realized and then there is the next stages of releasing to what we call the Liberated mind, meaning I no longer have to return – again if you believe in reincarnation, you don’t have to, but if you do – you never have to return here or any other plane. You’re going to leave this structure of creation entirely. It’s like the difference between waking up in the dream, which is Realization and actually waking up, period, which is Liberation. So waking up in a dream and saying: “Oh I’m in a dream” becomes fun and exciting. Liberating is like waking up from that dream entirely, you’re done with it, you’re out. You’re not going to dream any longer in that regard.
But the importance is while we’re here in the dream to not make it a nightmare. And the way our world is running, you know, as human beings we try not to make it a nightmare for us and others. We inherently have a pretty pure sweetness to us generally, but that insulating egoic selfing will corrupt that by hiding that and create this false narrative character. And that narrative character believes the way it was brought up and unfortunately in some cases that it’s the enemy, it’s evil, it’s terrible, it doesn’t have any value.
You know, there’s ways we can abuse children and we can set them up to become that insulating factor that’s crazy and nuts and a bully and all those things. And unfortunately it’s not that really that the soul wants that, it’s just that the soul’s entangled in the concept idea of this societally or culturally influenced identity and that’s the point of removing, because it literally frees us from the illusory perceptions that we live with, that filter we live with and see reality through.
Jimmy: How common is it to find a realized person or somebody who’s sealed this state in today’s world of…what is it, around 7 billion people or so…today?
Daishi: Yeah so where are the people that can help us who have achieved this state. So, if you consider the way that most traditions look at the cycles, we’re in the darkest age, so we have the most ignorance. And because of that most authentic teachers aren’t really teaching publicly. Because they know that people are not going to be able to really…you know the attention span is 7 seconds, right? So how am I going to get them to get involved with self…this very treacherous and difficult path, which involves you looking within and correcting things within and becoming – actually wanting to have the aspiration to change and become great.
Unless someone has gone through enough dissatisfaction and has gone through enough turmoil, where they’ve finally decided or come to terms with the fact that they are never going to get it out there. It’s just not happening. No matter what I do, it may satiate me for a little while but inevitably I’m never getting it. I don’t care if it’s the right partner, the right money, it doesn’t matter what it is – I’m never going to be satisfied. Until they come to that place and they have enough aspiration, inspiration, what’s called hotsu bodaishin, the actual drive for this kind of evolved state, which takes work. This is a hero’s path, I mean in order to evolve from this state – you have to do it, you have to move through it.
So unless those conditions are met, you’re a waste of time for a teacher, because you’re not going to be able to…you know, they’re just going to be giving you time and energy trying to help you get ahead and you’re not really in it yet. You still think that…yeah maybe some of the spiritual path and then also a better job. Maybe some of the spiritual path and also if I could get, you know, the right woman. It doesn’t work like that and the old saying was: you can’t put your foot in the world and in heaven, you can’t have two masters. It won’t work, you can’t serve the world and serve the teacher, you’ve got to say okay I inherently get it.
And that can’t come from coercion, it has to come from a realistic view that it’s not going to work and I fully get that through and through.
So there’s one condition, the other condition is, how many people in this age have that condition happening? Not many, so what happens is the teachers just kind of disappear for a while, the Dharma-Ending Age they call it in Buddhism, where you just sort of see that you got a lot of people talking about it, but not a lot of people doing it. You got a lot of teachers who are regurgitating information but they’re not really coming from that source of real, again from the Buddhist perspective, the Bodhisattva heart. Really caring and loving and really actually appreciating the state and being able to teach that state and understand where the student is coming from, so there’s a lack there.
But the good news is as we come out of this age, and we are, there’s a lot of youngsters and older people that are now coming to terms with the fact that, you know, I need to self-evolve here, because my ailments are not being corrected and it doesn’t matter what I do, but I can start to begin to get the idea that unless I do something to change myself, the outside world isn’t going to change. So unless I take it upon myself to say: hey, look, if I don’t become a better perceiver, if I don’t change my filter, my reactions, my emotions and my mental issues – I’m never going to make any change out there. So as that swells up, more authentic teachers rise to meet the challenge. So it kind of comes hand-in-hand. But I think prior to this you had a lot of babbling going on about spirituality and a lot of people that are lost. Yes, that’s changing but yeah, you’re right, where are they?
Jimmy: Good, so now somebody has come to this realization that that is where to be heading, the most obvious question that people in the audience probably have is, how do I get that?
Daishi: How do you get it? Right, this is the trouble. Where do I go to get this? So you could go to Kunlun Mountain, you can go to two places in…I have students moving close to me and you know very well, you’ve been with me a long time, so you know that I take people in my home, I’ll go to retreats all over the world, I’ll help anybody I can, but most people are heading out kind of to be closer, so they can get more intense with me personally, and I love that. But it’s funny that I have people from India and these are hardcore mendicants that are leaving ashrams or coming out of India to come spend time with somebody on the West Coast of the United States.
The joke being, hey we we’re the ones who invented this, how are you going there for energy work, for meditative work, how are you going there for Realization? With the exception of a few very beautiful teachers there, that are doing the best they can, no question about it and they’re absolutely magnificent teachers, there are some that are just beautiful. Trying to get that teaching, it’s really a rare jewel. Even in Nepal and Tibet today, it’s really rare. We have to find somebody who’s done it, somebody willing to teach in this age. And those are hard things to do.
So like I said, the reason we are coming out publicly through the academy and having our teachers, myself included, giving our time through our non-profit organization to help people earnestly go after this. If that doesn’t work or feel good for you, you need to really go on a search and find somebody who’s actually authentically there and authentically willing to help you from a very deep and loving state. And I mean, you know yourself, that’s not around very often, it’s just not and I hope that changes and I’m doing my best to make sure that guys like you are inevitably going to be able to run with helping people, being able to teach it at sky-high levels so that we have enough of those teachers, so this problem doesn’t happen. But until then, you’re fortunate if you get it.
And if you don’t have it near you and you don’t like the offering we have for whatever reason, our family or our group, just keep searching. It’s out here, but it’s hard to find and you’re right, it’s something you need to really search for and you need to turn over rocks for a while. I’ve got guys that have been 20, 30, 40 years in other organizations before coming to us and not finding the truth, you know, in it’s deepest way. So it’s an interesting complex conundrum but again, we’re trying to change that and I hope that we change that quickly.
Jimmy: Yes. And I can attest to the time that I’ve spent with you, to the point that I’ve actually just bought another plane ticket to come visit you.
Daishi: And I’m happy about that.
Jimmy: I’m looking forward to sitting with you again there. Speaking of the website, do we have a plausible timeline on when it’s going to be up and running for the listeners out there?
Daishi: It’s a great thing, I’m glad you brought it up. Now we were going to go to Patreon for this, but what the team has decided that we’re just going to go after our own academy built software, they are already building it out. It’s going to be used in it’s own platform, we’re just going to go to the basic URL drukama.com. That will lead you to all of the other assets we offer. You know, we have forums and we have people that are all over the world talking and sharing and are very, very close. I mean like I’ve said before, our group is phenomenally close to each, but the learning center, the academy is there in that page. Everything is going to be located there, so from now on, it’s really simple – drukama.com. And you can find everything you want there and the launch of that I hope to be next week or so.
And I keep teasing this out, because it is a big project, right? In order to do this it’s a big project and they’re moving fast and the team is ridiculously efficient, but I don’t want to make any dates just yet and I think by the time we do our next podcast we’ll have a firm date and we’ve already had, you know, a huge line of dozens and dozens of people over the last couple of days alone asking for information. So, we want to make it right, we want to do it the right way but we also want to help everybody and those people who are really looking for it, we want to give them the information they want and so I want to make sure that before it gets off the ground, it’s done right. So it’ll be there, it’s coming quick I promise you guys, we’re working on it as fast as we can, there’s no question. But we probably won’t have a firm date before the next show.
Jimmy: Sure enough and I’m sure it’s going to be awesome and I can’t wait to see it in the new format there. Okay, Daishi, I think we’ll leave it that so thanks for joining us today. Did you have any other comments?
Daishi: No, I just want to say again, thank you, like every other co-host that has come on and done this, for giving up your time and I know you’re busy, you have a family, you’ve got a lot going on. I want to personally say thank you to you and to every other co-host that’s been on the show and that’s coming on the show, for giving up time and I hope you come back and do another one, you did a phenomenal job, thank you so much and blessings to you for your help.
Jimmy: It’s my pleasure and yeah I look forward to doing another one of these shows in the future. And just for the listeners out there, if you do have any questions from this show or from anything we’ve covered, you can also get a hold of us at the e-mail address firstname.lastname@example.org and thanks to the audience there for joining us today and we look forward to talking to you soon!