Drukama RadioTM Episode 29 – Drukama and the Spiritual Traditions
Today Daishi Nagiyah speaks to Deliyahu about the relationship between Drukama and other spiritual traditions. What do Christianity, Islam, Alchemy, Buddhism, and other traditions have in common? How does Drukama fit into this, and what is it’s purpose?
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Episode 29 Extract
Drukama and the Spiritual Traditions
“ The idea to our path is that we create that blissful nature within ourselves, regardless of outside circumstance, so that we no longer have to depend on the outside world to fulfill those needs temporarily and find more suffering through that process.
Once we learn how to build bliss within and impartiality through a clear-minded view, we marry those two things and we become what people refer to as an Enlightened being.
In other words, we’re ‘self-sustaining’; we don’t have to rely on anything outside of us to make us feel good-natured, compassionate and clear-minded and wipe away the selfing nature, so that we can give to others in an impartial way.
We need that in the world more than ever.”
~ Daishi Nagiyah
Drukama Radio™ podcast extract – EP29
Full Transcript of This Episode
Deliyahu: Hi everyone, and welcome to Drukama Radio. I am your co-host today; Deliyahu. We are very grateful to have Daishi with us. Daishi, how are you today?
Daishi: I’m doing great, thanks for having me again on the show. I appreciate it and look forward to an engaging conversation.
Deliyahu: Me too. So today we’re going to be talking about Drukama and the traditions. I guess we should start off with the obvious questions. Can you tell us a little bit about what tradition is?
Daishi: Yeah, so I guess if you were looking at different spiritual threads or veins throughout history, there are different cultures that have different ideas about the way they explain the path, and that can be really confusing. So, I think that if you look at China for example, or Japan for example, or Tibet for example, or India for example, and then go all the way to the west to the Kabbalistic train of thought in the Jewish community, you would see what appears to be a completely different set of explanations and scriptures and ideas about the spiritual path and they seem to be at odds with each other because of the way that they explain it, the terms that they use obviously, the language is different, the methods might seem to be different.
So you have all of these different approaches, different methods, seemingly, toward the path. And then that creates sort of this weird identification to different kinds of ideas and concepts and it creates what I think, traditionally was a universal way; you know we’re all human beings, we all function the same way, and it splinters it out into a variety of different approaches seemingly. Again I don’t believe that that’s the case, we’ll try to talk about that more here, but I think the idea is that, you know, it seems to be that there’s all these different ways or methods or ideas or concepts about what spirituality really is, when in fact when we look a little deeper, I think that’s not really the case. So in culture or tradition, we’re talking about different brands, in today’s language, different brands or different ways of identifying the spiritual path that are unique to cultures throughout time, and this goes back thousands of years obviously.
Deliyahu: Why are there so many different traditions?
Daishi: I think that if you were to take somebody, a sage in the path, and then have him travel into different ideologies, different kinds of people, the way that they approached their specific lives, the way that they were involved in their own specific cultures, you would have to introduce the path in a way that touches them, a way that makes sense for them, a way that’s usable and effective for that particular culture. So you’d have to kind of give them something that they could work with that they’d understand and relate with, otherwise you wouldn’t be able to help them. And we see this in the Tibetan tradition for example, that we had the Bon tradition that had to be integrated into the Tantric tradition, and that took some time. They had to take parts of the Bon tradition and apply the Tantric tradition over generations before it was really accepted because there was a shamanistic tradition that was very deep in the Tibetan culture that they wanted to add to in terms of introducing Tantra from the southern Indian perspective. So in that regard, it took time and I think that this is what happened across cultures.
We know for a fact that the Sephardic Jews, for example, co-mingled with the Sufis and the esoteric Christians, and they all kind of worked together in understanding and putting pieces of the puzzle together in and among their communities. So I think you see this in the Gnostics, the Kabbalists, the Hermeticists; you see this in the Sufis, all the way through the Yogic traditions in the east and into China and Japan in the Zen Buddhist tradition, and so forth.
But my contention, I think a lot of people agree with this more and more as time goes on here, that it all originated from one idea and one concept, and I think that’s what’s most important, and when you break it down and you can see that the way that the Kabbalists look at the different levels of light; you have Nafesh, Ruach, Neshamah, Chayah, and Yechida; and these levels of light are the same waves or levels of these Sefirots, or the Partzufim, the husk of the body, is the same way that you see the Yogic tradition look at it, or the way that the Tibetan tradition looks at it, obviously holding the Yogic traditions into their culture in terms of the Manomayakosha all the way through the Anandamayakosha, so you look at the koshas there, they’re the same kinds of ideas. There are five levels, there are five husks of the body, five spiritual domains, and really if you start to pin those ideas together, the way light goes in the body, the Kabbalists call that the Or into the Partzufim, and the way that the light goes into the body, the prana goes into the body in the Yogic tradition. They’re very similar. They’re speaking about the same things, they’re just using different analogies, different ways of describing the way that prana invades the body, the way that we utilize the breath, the way that we utilize the inner energies, the inner heat, and the way that they’re balanced out by the fire and water and so on and so forth.
They’re really saying the same things, and it just takes a lot of investigation to put those pieces together and realize that, “Hey, you know the west and the east both have the same ideas and same concepts that are dressed in their own cultures and own ideas, but they’re really saying the same thing when it comes down to it.” And that’s really the Christian idea of rebirth, right? So everything revolves around death and rebirth and the idea of reincarnation which is an idea that’s held across the board, you know, whether you’re a Kabbalistic follower, or you’re a Yogic follower, reincarnation was the idea. So if you look at reincarnation, everything’s about death and birth, and death and birth. Even in the Christian tradition, you have being reborn, or born again, and so that idea followed even into the Holy Spirit, Father, and Son Trinity of the Catholic church even. So, it’s there, it’s in every religion, it’s in every spiritual tradition, it’s the same process, it’s the process of becoming reborn, or being reborn again many times in an effort to burn out that cycle and become illuminated during that process. And that’s at the core of every culture.
Deliyahu: Even in those single traditions, for example; Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, Kabbalistic traditions, etc. they have sub-branches. Like within Buddhism, you have Hinayana, Mahayana, and in Christianity you have Lutherism, Protestantism; they’re all based on the same concept but different.
Daishi: You’re looking at different levels of the path, so you’re appealing to a general…you know you’ve got to speak to your audience, sort of how the Buddha did. So the Buddha spoke to different audiences in different ways. Obviously when he was speaking in certain sutras, he was speaking about more advanced practices and applications and ideas and methods, and when he spoke in other sutras, he was speaking more generally to a bigger audience that was maybe just introduced into the idea of spirituality. So when you take that into consideration, if you look at standardized Christianity, it’s the way that Christ spoke about it. He said, “For them I speak in parables, to you I tell the secrets of the parables.” And so he’s telling the disciples there’s a different teaching for you than there is for the general population. Well why is that? Because there are different levels of consciousness, and of awareness to the path, so if somebody’s just introduced to the path they have to understand it on the most basic level. They have to understand the most basic ideas of the path first. That has to be digested. They have to accept that, understand that, and be ready to move forward to the next parts of it. There isn’t any way you can teach that person the very deep esoteric aspects of the path, they’re just not ready for it. And this is where we get the parable, again going back to Christianity, of the milk and the meat. So if you’re babes you can barely handle the milk, but when you’re older and more mature you can handle the meat. The idea is; as you progress down this path, ideas and concepts will be accessible to you, and practical to you, and you’ll be able to put those in motion. If you’re not ready for that, hearing about them and discussing them and going into them is going to be just over your head. It’s like bringing a physics book to a third-grade class. It’s not going to do well, but if you bring basic arithmetic, a few apples, and start to show them multiplication or addition even, that would be something they can pallet.
And so when you look at the Hinayana idea, I think this is a general idea of, you know, “let’s look at the basic tenets of the path.” But when you look to the Vajrayana path, for example, you’re looking at a much more esoteric doctrine that involves much more aggressive and advanced practical application.
Deliyahu: I’ve noticed also that all those traditions have one central figure. For example, Buddha, Christ, Muhammad; is that common through all of them, or what is the reason for that?
Daishi: I think that the esoteric application for the looking toward that kind of perfected mindset is important whether that’s in your Yogi, your Guru, your Teacher, Master, your Mentor, whatever it is. That relationship has to be there so you can see something to attain or have some aspiration and move toward. Without having that central idea; the Christ Consciousness, that sort of Son of God idea; or the Buddha, the perfect enlightened being idea, it’s hard to point to a space that we want to attain or become, or actualize if that’s a better word. So I think throughout the cultures, they put up one kind of over-soul, over-being that kind of became their ambassador or something they can look toward and say, “I want to become like that, and I want to strive or aspire toward that. That’s my aspiration.” I think that’s really important to have something like that.
Deliyahu: What makes Drukama different from the other traditions that are out there?
Daishi: Well I don’t think it’s different at all, I think that it’s just a revival of something that’s been lost, and I don’t necessarily think it’s been lost, I just don’t think it’s been made available to the masses, and I think that’s probably for good reason but I think there’s a time now where people can start to understand and grasp the ideas and the concepts behind it. So I don’t think it’s new, I don’t think it’s proprietary or something special, I think it’s just that we have a way of explaining it that helps a person today understand it a little bit better. If they were to go back to the Tantras, for example, way back when and try to decipher them and understand them, it’d be impossible, and that’s been one of the troubles with the most practitioners over the generations is trying to put together what they meant, and what was really going on. And I think it can be reduced to something very simple and that is; again, if you agree to the sentiment that we have reincarnation. If you accept that tenet and that philosophy that we come back and back and back until we seem to somehow transmute ourselves into a perfected kind of awareness that’s ridding itself of selfishness and becoming totally altruistic. If you believe in that tenet, that seems to be pretty highly accepted throughout all the cultures, except maybe the major religions today; if you accept that then you would say that there is necessarily a certain amount of lives I’m going to go through.
So I’m going to dissolve in this body away and my spirit or my soul will move into another body, another life, and then this will continue on for however many lifetimes; whether that’s fifty, one-thousand, hundred thousand, who knows, but let’s say that’s the idea. Well the underlying concept is that there was a group of very sophisticated and smart seers, sages, and saints along the way that said, “Well, what if I could produce this death cycle; this death and rebirth cycle within myself, and I could just move through this very quickly now, since I have the aspiration to liberate, or realize, whatever we want to call this now. Is there a way that I can go through this death process and this rebirth process within myself now and get rid of or burn up all of that long-term need to come back to Samsara, or this kind of troubled realm of suffering. Or could I lessen that by going through that?”
And so the underlying idea is that we are going to have a birth within, that we have a white and red aspect, kind of a semen from the Father or blood from the Mother aspect already within us and if we can learn how to unite those two together, we can clean and distill out all of our negative egoic, selfish attributes and somehow cleanse that fast rather than going through the death and rebirth cycle in life and attain that very quickly. And so that was the underlying.. well, whether you look in the Alchemical tradition or you look in the Tantric tradition, or the Taoist tradition, where they talk about the egress being born within, that embryo, the womb, and the child. If you look at these ideas, they cross-culture, they cross-tradition, and in the underpinning of all esoteric ideas, and that’s why I say, even in the religion of Christianity or Catholicism, the idea is to be born again. So they’re even speaking about it flatly and outright in that tradition whereas they take the water and dunk the person down, the idea esoterically is that somehow inside you manifest these kind of dormant seeds, and you cause these seeds to become germinated and you rebirth or reboot yourself over and over again until you’re just clear of the need for coming back to be reincarnated here, or what they commonly call the liberating factor, liberating body. That’s not a new thing. That’s an old thing. I think that the system by which we attain that has been hidden underground, and now that’s coming back out. That’s what we’re trying to provide to people is the idea, the concepts, and the methods behind that.
Deliyahu: That’s interesting, just something that more and more of the world is awakening to.
Daishi: I think if people don’t cleave to this, they’re going to find the suffering that comes from their daily life of trying to figure out how they’re going to satiate themselves will be terrible. The suffering is only going to get worse, it’s only going to get more difficult to be in this realm, or this reality, the way we are, trying to operate from a sense of looking outwardly and trying to satiate that inward pain. And the idea to our path is that we fulfill that blissful nature within. We create the bliss within, regardless of outside circumstance, so that we no longer have to depend on the outside world to fulfill those needs temporally, and therefore find more suffering through that process. So once we learn how to build bliss within ourselves and impartiality through a clear-minded view, we marry those two things and we become what people would refer to as an enlightened being. In other words, we’re self-sustaining. We don’t have to rely on anything outside of us to make us feel good natured and compassionate and clear-minded, and kind of wipe away the selfing nature so that we can give to others in an impartial way. And so we need that in our world more than ever. If we don’t start to get that out there, suffering is only going to.. it’s at a pitch, and it’s going to climb, sort of like a graph that goes up slowly and then just scales to full fold. That’s kind of where we are today.
So I think people are running toward that knowledge because they know somehow inherently it’ll help.
Deliyahu: And in these traditions; in the Yogic tradition, the Buddhist, Tantric traditions, there is the idea that you can become enlightened, and not have to come back in this life. But in the major traditions, like Catholicism, Islam, they don’t believe in that. Why do you think that they have taken a different route?
Daishi: Yeah, that’s a great question, I mean I think that the reason why those two big traditions have not really discussed the esoteric aspects is because the times in which they were developed were in the middle of what we call our dark age, where people were not ready to accept the highly esoteric nature of the mystical path. So they had to come up with something that was okay for people of that time, and that time was basically that, “Listen, do the best you can as a human being, just get by, do the best you can, pray to your god, love people, and I know that’s going to be difficult, but if you can build good merit and rid yourself of bad karma, you’ll end up going to heavens, you can relax and rest there until you have to come back.” And in the Christian tradition they believe that that’s your last final place but no one else agrees with that, even their esoteric division. So that’s something unique to them.
But the idea is that; do the best you can because we understand it’s going to be pretty hard for you to grasp the mystical aspects and put them into practice. So for now, because of the time we’re in, this works. But I think they’re coming to the end of their time. Now we might be at the precipice of it, but very soon we’ll see that people are beyond that now. They don’t want to know that they’re just going to go up into another form realm and then end up back in Earth potentially, or have to just sit around some place that’s built in more of this. That, you know, that somehow that just a better Earth version is going to somehow make them happy is not quite accurate. And I think people understand that, they want to go beyond that. They want to be bigger than that, they want to go to the ultimate. And in order to do that, they have to reconcile the idea that, “Maybe that halfway house idea of just getting to a better Earth-like environment isn’t really enough, I may have to go way past that; and for that, it may require something more than what the religions are offering me.” Or at least on their surface because I believe that underneath all of the religions is a beautiful esoteric tale, but I just don’t think that it’s been expressed and exposed as it should yet, but will.
Deliyahu: And Drukama is going to make it all happen I’m sure.
Daishi: Well, if we could be a small part of it, it would be fantastic, but somebody needs to do it. And that’s the whole reason why we started this press is because it has to get out, it has to be talked about, it has to be investigated, it has to be explored by people. And unfortunately, there are some great teachers out there that are bringing this to the forefront and God Bless them, they’re beautiful and I love it, but it’s just not enough. So, we all have to kind of do our part to become that, for lack of a better word we use the Tantric idea of the bodhisattva, and go out and press and push these ideas so that more people can cling to them and utilize them, and are able to become a little bit clearer, a little bit more compassionate, filled with a little bit more joy in their regular life so that they can extend that out to others and seek things without the self-filters that are clogging up their views and making things skewed in terms of perception.
Deliyahu: The new website is up and running soon. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Daishi: Drukama.com is actually active for our current members right now and it will be open to the public I’m thinking within a week or so but that’s more up to the machine elves that have been behind the scenes making it all happen. I really don’t have much to do with that. The guys that are behind the scenes and doing all the hard work are really more in tune to when it will open but I think next week at some point it looks like it’ll probably be open to the public. And we’re excited to make it available, make the teachings available and the group which is a world-wide group at this point available to anyone who needs that help or wants to be a part of that.
Deliyahu: Thank you so much for joining us today, Daishi. I enjoyed the conversation today and I hope that the people listening enjoyed it too, and that it opened up some new avenues of thinking about it.
Daishi: Thank you for having this; sorry to interrupt you, just wanted to thank you for being part of this too and doing this for us because it helps a lot to be able to have people like you come on and do these shows for us. It’s a big honor to be here, I appreciate it.
Deliyahu: Thank you Daishi, thank you. And for our listeners, if you have any questions, please send us an email at firstname.lastname@example.org. Thank you for joining us today, and we look forward to seeing you next time.